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jose32


Jun 28, 2011, 9:42 PM
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Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind
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Guy next to me on a sport climb bailed off somehow w/o leaving any gear behind. Looked like he did it off a quickdraw, removing one carabiner, apparently fed the rope through that end, rapped off it, then pulled it down after using the rope tied to the remaining carabiner end?

Was curious if anyone knew a little more exactly how this is typically done. Guess it would only work if you're 1/3 the length of your rope up as well.

I think normally I'd still rather leave a biner if I needed to bail off a sport route, but it seems like a good trick to have in the toolbox.

thanks


charlie.elverson


Jun 28, 2011, 9:57 PM
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Re: [jose32] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Sounds like he did a texas rope trick.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=1657055;

I've never done it either, but the premise is simple enough.


jt512


Jun 28, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Re: [charlie.elverson] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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charlie.elverson wrote:
Sounds like he did a texas rope trick.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=1657055;

I've never done it either, but the premise is simple enough.

Oy


Colinhoglund


Jun 28, 2011, 10:43 PM
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Re: [jt512] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Lets see if this one gets the RC.n00b/JT512 seal of approval.

I use a 5m cordalette to hand over hand down to the next bolt in a multipitch like fashion (think of each bolt as a station), removing the draws as I go. Even works on overhanging stuff since you just lower and swing to each bolt. Your never off belay or relying on a single bolt entirely (accept of course when your cleaning the last one, but your basically on the ground by then anyways).

Any glaring ways to die that I'm overlooking?


rtwilli4


Jun 29, 2011, 3:18 AM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Lets see if this one gets the RC.n00b/JT512 seal of approval.

I use a 5m cordalette to hand over hand down to the next bolt in a multipitch like fashion (think of each bolt as a station), removing the draws as I go. Even works on overhanging stuff since you just lower and swing to each bolt. Your never off belay or relying on a single bolt entirely (accept of course when your cleaning the last one, but your basically on the ground by then anyways).

Any glaring ways to die that I'm overlooking?

Are you serious? I can think of plenty of easier ways to bail off a sport route. Your skin must hate you after a trick like that.


Colinhoglund


Jun 29, 2011, 8:59 AM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?


kachoong


Jun 29, 2011, 9:19 AM
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Re: [charlie.elverson] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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charlie.elverson wrote:
Sounds like he did a texas rope trick.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=1657055;

I've never done it either, but the premise is simple enough.

I've always thought that was kinda silly (apart from it being ludicrous) in that you're wearing through a sling which usually cost the same as a biner. Use a damn biner if you have to and reduce your likelihood of dying quite drastically.


ceebo


Jun 29, 2011, 9:37 AM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?

I have personally tested a method, but it will be horrendously flamed ;p.


pdpcardsfan


Jun 29, 2011, 9:47 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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i just use a superclip.


Colinhoglund


Jun 29, 2011, 10:07 AM
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kachoong wrote:
charlie.elverson wrote:
Sounds like he did a texas rope trick.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=1657055;

I've never done it either, but the premise is simple enough.

I've always thought that was kinda silly (apart from it being ludicrous) in that you're wearing through a sling which usually cost the same as a biner. Use a damn biner if you have to and reduce your likelihood of dying quite drastically.

Yea the TRT seems kinda silly to me as well, I'd rather leave a biner. It only works <20m off the deck, takes a while to rig, relies solely on one bolt, burns a sling and if you do it wrong, you have a stuck rope. I use a 7mm cordalette and my above stated method is fast, safer and easy. If you can't hand over hand down a double 7mm cord, you can't be much of a climber.


jomagam


Jun 29, 2011, 11:13 AM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Lets see if this one gets the RC.n00b/JT512 seal of approval.

I use a 5m cordalette to hand over hand down to the next bolt in a multipitch like fashion (think of each bolt as a station), removing the draws as I go. Even works on overhanging stuff since you just lower and swing to each bolt. Your never off belay or relying on a single bolt entirely (accept of course when your cleaning the last one, but your basically on the ground by then anyways).

Any glaring ways to die that I'm overlooking?

How about rappelling down between bolts instead of going hand over hand ?

Your whole method brings up the question of how bad is it for the rope/chordelett to rap from a bolt. I've rapped from a "bolt" in Europe once that did not have a sharp edge; it looked like a donut with a handle.


Colinhoglund


Jun 29, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Re: [jomagam] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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jomagam wrote:
Colinhoglund wrote:
Lets see if this one gets the RC.n00b/JT512 seal of approval.

I use a 5m cordalette to hand over hand down to the next bolt in a multipitch like fashion (think of each bolt as a station), removing the draws as I go. Even works on overhanging stuff since you just lower and swing to each bolt. Your never off belay or relying on a single bolt entirely (accept of course when your cleaning the last one, but your basically on the ground by then anyways).

Any glaring ways to die that I'm overlooking?

How about rappelling down between bolts instead of going hand over hand ?

Your whole method brings up the question of how bad is it for the rope/chordelett to rap from a bolt. I've rapped from a "bolt" in Europe once that did not have a sharp edge; it looked like a donut with a handle.

Could work, but unnecessary. Loading/unloading your belay device between each bolt would take forever! Also I'm far less concerned about a $7 cordalette over bolts than my rope.


ceebo


Jun 29, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Re: [jomagam] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Yes this one is unjustifiably dangerous to use but i wanted to give a go some time back. I tested it indoor with a back up safety rope and a partner, although he always kept a foot slack in the safety line so that it did not effect the tests.

I was taught the robber not as a kid, although i know most refer to it as the highwayman knot, something or other.

Anyway, basic to set up. I obviously will skip the self anchor part.. and assuming people know how the robbery knot works.

- Thread the closed sling (forgive if my terminology is out) through the bolt ring giving a loop left and right of the ring. Make sure the stitch pad or knot is left side of the ring.

- Attach carabiner to the left loop ( obviously not letting the sling slip and fall under the biner weight).

- Find middle of rope or have both ends on floor w/e, curl it in prep for the robbery not. push the curl through both the biner and the right loop of the sling and then tie the knot. Adjust so it is snuggly knotted and increase the release loop size, i found 2 foot to be comfort enough.

- On the rappel rope, go down around a foot or so from the robber knot and tie a overhand not. Clip that into the biner (clove hitch i did not trust it on this one, looked wrong). Because their is a foot slack above the overhand not it directs some weight away from the robber knot that can twist and jam, resulting in it not releasing. But, if the knot is set up properly it will not happen.

- Optional, you can feed the robber loop slack through the overhand loop to add a little more stand still friction.

- Setup the rappel device (to the rappel rope Crazy) bla bla bl, touch down.

- Pull the release rope (rather hard) and it will all come sailing down.


Notes:

I wanted to see what would happen once i weighted the rappel rope and tugged the release rope (in the event of accidentals).. i was surprised at the significant amount of force i had to pull with before the release loop began to move (and it did not actually pull through and release). In other words.. i had to pull up so hard on the release rope.. that the majority of my weight was no longer on the rappel rope, and the release loop shrank by about 8 inches as my weight settled back onto the rappel rope. Plenty of slack was still in the release loop. Just saying!.

I tested a few ways of rappeling down, and the safest one to me (all things considered) was using a ATC with left hand on the brake rope. The right hand was out slightly to the right of my body with a very loose grip on the release rope to direct it and keep it out of the way of my feet etc. Obvisuly i reppeling slowly in short burst of a few feet. But done a few faster and found that to be ok too, no obvious shrink on the release loop at least.

It can also be set up with ought a biner, You just tie the robbery knot through both of the sling loops instead, then a foot down on the rappel rope and tie it to the left sling loop instead of to what was the biner. It is much more tricky to set up the robber knot to avoid twisting into itself and locking up with ought the biner though.

All in all, still very dangerous.. can never see why i would need to use this.. but well, it was fun messing around with it. Was a nothing but a case of curiosity.

DISCLAIMER: Was a while ago since i done this, i may have got something wrong in the explanation.. but to the best of my memory, it's right. Not that it matters, because nobody is silly enough to try it Laugh.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Jun 29, 2011, 12:32 PM)


jomagam


Jun 29, 2011, 12:31 PM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Also I'm far less concerned about a $7 cordalette over bolts than my rope.

Compare that to a $4 bail biner. And leaving a biner is a zero sum game, while messing up a cordelette is not.


markc


Jun 29, 2011, 12:38 PM
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Re: [kachoong] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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kachoong wrote:
charlie.elverson wrote:
Sounds like he did a texas rope trick.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...um.cgi?post=1657055;

I've never done it either, but the premise is simple enough.

I've always thought that was kinda silly (apart from it being ludicrous) in that you're wearing through a sling which usually cost the same as a biner. Use a damn biner if you have to and reduce your likelihood of dying quite drastically.

Most people I know don't really pitch the sling each time; they just retire it from other uses.

I've used the Texas Rope Trick in the past, but sparingly. It's somewhat convoluted and takes a while to rig, and there are often other options. While the TRT is higher risk, I don't know that I equate it to a death sentence.

As far as other methods, there's nothing wrong with finishing another route and rapping down to grab your biner, aiding through, or sending up a stronger member of your party to grab it. Besides, I'm less worried about leaving a cheap 'biner now than I was when I was a poor college student. You get a couple, you leave a couple, and it tends to even out.


skiclimb


Jun 29, 2011, 9:25 PM
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egads...

My first post in sportclimbing ..

I just clip into the draw and put the rope through the hanger and rap off.

you guys make stuff so complicated.


Kstenson


Jun 29, 2011, 10:37 PM
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Re: [skiclimb] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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skiclimb wrote:
egads...

put the rope through the hanger and rap off.

To me this seems the most obvious and practical choice, but the fact that no one has mentioned it makes me suspicious that there is a solid reason not to rap from bolts directly.

Could any experienced climber explain this to me?


jt512


Jun 29, 2011, 11:20 PM
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Kstenson wrote:
skiclimb wrote:
egads...

put the rope through the hanger and rap off.

To me this seems the most obvious and practical choice, but the fact that no one has mentioned it makes me suspicious that there is a solid reason not to rap from bolts directly.

Could any experienced climber explain this to me?

Sure. A conventional bolt hanger can damage or even cut a rope. Does this look like something you should run a weighted rope through?



The only hangers that it is considered safe to run a rope through are Metolius rap hangers, which, when used in pairs and set at the correct angle, have a rope-bearing radius equivalent to a carabiner.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 29, 2011, 11:50 PM)


markc


Jun 30, 2011, 5:59 AM
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jt512 wrote:
The only hangers that it is considered safe to run a rope through are Metolius rap hangers, which, when used in pairs and set at the correct angle, have a rope-bearing radius equivalent to a carabiner.

I realize they're not incredibly common, but I don't think I'd have any personal qualms rapping off of the round-stock glue-in bolts that I've seen. Otherwise, I'm in complete agreement.


lena_chita
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Jun 30, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Re: [Colinhoglund] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?


Down-climb and clean?


markc


Jun 30, 2011, 8:49 AM
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lena_chita wrote:
Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?


Down-climb and clean?

That works, as well. Even if you fall, you're not looking at anything worse than you were on the way up.


jt512


Jun 30, 2011, 10:37 AM
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Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?

Stick clip to the anchors, learn the route on TR, pull your rope, and send. Of course, you can just clean your draws and move on, if you want.

Jay


MS1


Jun 30, 2011, 12:22 PM
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Re: [jose32] Bailing sport climb w/o leaving any gear behind [In reply to]
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jose32 wrote:
Guy next to me on a sport climb bailed off somehow w/o leaving any gear behind. Looked like he did it off a quickdraw, removing one carabiner, apparently fed the rope through that end, rapped off it, then pulled it down after using the rope tied to the remaining carabiner end?

Was curious if anyone knew a little more exactly how this is typically done. Guess it would only work if you're 1/3 the length of your rope up as well.

I think normally I'd still rather leave a biner if I needed to bail off a sport route, but it seems like a good trick to have in the toolbox.

thanks

There are three ways that normal people deal with this problem: stickclip your way to the anchors, get someone stronger than you to finish up the route, or just accept that you'll be parting with a cheap biner.

Anything else is just needless bullshittery.


Partner jammer


Jul 1, 2011, 11:40 PM
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lena_chita wrote:
Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?


Down-climb and clean?

We have a winner! This is one technique that is well worth practicing.


jt512


Jul 2, 2011, 9:55 AM
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jammer wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
Colinhoglund wrote:
Ok besides the TRT what other ways can you describe?


Down-climb and clean?

We have a winner! This is one technique that is well worth practicing.

How likely is it that a climber who can't climb up to the anchors could down-climb to clean?

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 2, 2011, 9:56 AM)

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