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colinhartley


Jun 23, 2011, 10:41 AM
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Self Coached Climber and Bouldering
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Ive been thinking about buying the self coached climber but I wasnt sure how much of the material would be relevent to bouldering. I figured most the technique would but i wasnt sure about the training exercises. Is there a better book for boulderers? I climb v4/5


redlude97


Jun 23, 2011, 11:16 AM
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Re: [colinhartley] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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Many of the exercises are meant to be done on a bouldering wall


angeleyes


Jun 23, 2011, 11:45 AM
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Re: [colinhartley] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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a number of the exercises aren't very practical to do unless you have a climbing partner and can get to a gym consistently during non peak hours or your gym isn't overcrowded e.g. endless laps, blindfolded climbing, stick game, etc

also if you boulder v 4/5 some of them may be too basic for you e.g. drills helping you learn things like straight armed climbing, drop knees, flagging etc.

always room for improvement though and I think it's the best overall climbing book on the market except perhaps the one below

9 out of 10 Climbers make the same mistakes - Macleod
http://www.amazon.com/...Code=as2&ie=utf8

overall that book might be more applicable to a boulderer

This should be due out soon

Bouldering: Movement, Tactics, and Problem Solving - Beal
http://www.amazon.com/...Code=as2&ie=utf8


rtwilli4


Jun 23, 2011, 4:36 PM
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Re: [colinhartley] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.


Learner


Jun 23, 2011, 5:23 PM
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Re: [rtwilli4] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.


(This post was edited by Learner on Jun 23, 2011, 5:25 PM)


ceebo


Jun 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: [Learner] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.


Learner


Jun 24, 2011, 1:25 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.
Well, thanks. Smile You're one of my favorite posters too. I see climbing as a never-ending, subjective learning process, not only in learning about climbing but even moreso learning about yourself. So, when it came time to register, this name came to mind.

And I haven't been climbing long. I have a lot to learn and, like anyone, always will.


(This post was edited by Learner on Jun 24, 2011, 1:31 PM)


spikeddem


Jun 24, 2011, 1:27 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.

Are Jay and I #2 and #1?


jbro_135


Jun 24, 2011, 6:40 PM
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Re: [spikeddem] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
ceebo wrote:
Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.

Are Jay and I #2 and #1?

If jay wrote a program to automatically one star all ceebo's posts he would be my #1


jt512


Jun 24, 2011, 10:20 PM
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Re: [jbro_135] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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jbro_135 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
ceebo wrote:
Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.

Are Jay and I #2 and #1?

If jay wrote a program to automatically one star all ceebo's posts . . .

I can't believe I never thought of that.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jun 24, 2011, 10:24 PM)


DouglasHunter


Jun 25, 2011, 7:32 PM
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Re: [colinhartley] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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colinhartley wrote:
Ive been thinking about buying the self coached climber but I wasnt sure how much of the material would be relevent to bouldering. I figured most the technique would but i wasnt sure about the training exercises. Is there a better book for boulderers? I climb v4/5

When I am working with boulderers at the V9 and higher range I find that i spend most of my time using information found in the first chapter of the SCC. Further I have yet to find a boulderer who had complete knowledge of the movement skills detailed in the first third of the book. Even V12 climbers don't see all the movement possibilities in every situation.

As for training activities there is a degree to which if a boulderer only knew how to do CIR and VIR that would be enough to keep him making progress for a long time. At the V4 / V5 level you are still making a lot of mistakes in your movement and most likely don't have much climbing specific fitness. I would suggest spending 80% of your time doing CIR / VIR and 20% working at a level 1 - 2 v grades above your max CIR level.


patrickh


Jun 29, 2011, 7:42 AM
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Re: [DouglasHunter] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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DouglasHunter wrote:
colinhartley wrote:
Ive been thinking about buying the self coached climber but I wasnt sure how much of the material would be relevent to bouldering. I figured most the technique would but i wasnt sure about the training exercises. Is there a better book for boulderers? I climb v4/5

When I am working with boulderers at the V9 and higher range I find that i spend most of my time using information found in the first chapter of the SCC. Further I have yet to find a boulderer who had complete knowledge of the movement skills detailed in the first third of the book. Even V12 climbers don't see all the movement possibilities in every situation.

As for training activities there is a degree to which if a boulderer only knew how to do CIR and VIR that would be enough to keep him making progress for a long time. At the V4 / V5 level you are still making a lot of mistakes in your movement and most likely don't have much climbing specific fitness. I would suggest spending 80% of your time doing CIR / VIR and 20% working at a level 1 - 2 v grades above your max CIR level.

I'm a v5/v6 climber that has plateaued, so this is interesting to me. What is CIR/VIR?


DouglasHunter


Jun 29, 2011, 8:26 AM
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There are three types of direct training for climbing:

Continuous, Repetition, and Interval.

The most well known continuous method is ARCing which is used to develop local aerobic endurance in the flexors of the wrist and fingers.

The most well known interval method for climbing is the 4X4 where the rest interval between sets is controlled.

CIR / VIR stand for Continuous Intensity Repetitions and Variable Intensity Repetitions. In CIR the goal is to complete 12 - 15 boulder problems of the same grade in one climbing session. Because of large number of problems you need to be doing problems that you can complete in 1 - 3 tries, and you will also be doing problems that you have done before. The point is to get a high concentration of climbing at a very specific level in one session. VIR just means that you will be pre-selecting a range of difficulty to work within. Usually no more than 3 V grades, most often just 2 V grades.

Here is the thing boulderers often spend a great deal of time projecting at or near their limit. This means that they are consistently working high above their base level of skills and fitness, further constant projecting means that climbers are getting a low volume of climbing in during any given session and the quality of that climbing is not very high. With CIR and VIR the climber is working closer to their base level of fitness and movement skills and getting a high volume of high quality practice in each session. This fosters long term improvement, and helps avoid getting stuck at a specific level.


JoeHamilton


Jul 17, 2011, 7:38 PM
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Here is the thing boulderers often spend a great deal of time projecting at or near their limit. This means that they are consistently working high above their base level of skills and fitness, further constant projecting means that climbers are getting a low volume of climbing in during any given session and the quality of that climbing is not very high. With CIR and VIR the climber is working closer to their base level of fitness and movement skills and getting a high volume of high quality practice in each session. This fosters long term improvement, and helps avoid getting stuck at a specific level.VERY WELL SAID ; I find myself in the gym watching others ,and thinking in my head man I want to get stronger and climb them v7s on the overhanging wall ..But today my partners wher all to busy to go outside so Im at the gym , this big guy was talking about how he did 4-v5 and two v6 and thats about his limit ,now at this point I have done about 10 v0and v1's ,then I moved to some v2's and a few v3's to push my muscle beyond the pump . basicly I was adapting the 4x4 method . at the start of my work out a I picked a v0 I have done before ,,climbed up climb down climbed up clim down clim up clim down climup climdown ,,,,,rest for 5 minutes shakeing out arms ,lol,,, no rest in between,, Also when training at the gym if possible ,I will top rope the hardest route I can for the stamina aspect


jt512


Jul 17, 2011, 7:46 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote:

Here is the thing boulderers often spend a great deal of time projecting at or near their limit. This means that they are consistently working high above their base level of skills and fitness, further constant projecting means that climbers are getting a low volume of climbing in during any given session and the quality of that climbing is not very high. With CIR and VIR the climber is working closer to their base level of fitness and movement skills and getting a high volume of high quality practice in each session. This fosters long term improvement, and helps avoid getting stuck at a specific level.
VERY WELL SAID ; I find myself in the gym watching others ,and thinking in my head man I want to get stronger and climb them v7s on the overhanging wall ..But today my partners wher all to busy to go outside so Im at the gym , this big guy was talking about how he did 4-v5 and two v6 and thats about his limit ,now at this point I have done about 10 v0and v1's ,then I moved to some v2's and a few v3's to push my muscle beyond the pump . basicly I was adapting the 4x4 method . at the start of my work out a I picked a v0 I have done before ,,climbed up climb down climbed up clim down clim up clim down climup climdown ,,,,,rest for 5 minutes shakeing out arms ,lol,,, no rest in between,, Also when training at the gym if possible ,I will top rope the hardest route I can for the stamina aspect

Please learn how to use the quote function and how to punctuate English sentences, not necessarily in that order.


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jul 17, 2011, 7:47 PM)


JoeHamilton


Jul 18, 2011, 7:38 AM
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thanx ,,ya something went wrong in the quote . To properly puncute would be like writeing a book. And not speaking. It is the internet and is a forum ,thus makeing for conversation . I wounder what the world be like if we spoke out our punctuation . blah,blah,blah,comma,piffblah blah period. Anyway thanx again for your input .


jt512


Jul 18, 2011, 7:52 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
thanx ,,ya something went wrong in the quote . To properly puncute would be like writeing a book. And not speaking. It is the internet and is a forum ,thus makeing for conversation . I wounder what the world be like if we spoke out our punctuation . blah,blah,blah,comma,piffblah blah period. Anyway thanx again for your input .

Unfortunately, you are writing, not speaking; and we're reading, not listening.

Jay


petsfed


Jul 18, 2011, 7:56 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
To properly puncute would be like writeing a book. And not speaking. It is the internet and is a forum ,thus makeing for conversation

But you are not speaking, you are writing. Thus, learn to punctuate so I don't have diagram them (you remember from 7th grade? underline the verb, draw a box around the noun, etc) just to figure out what you're trying to say. If your ideas can't be understood, they certainly can't be taken into consideration.

As to the SCC and bouldering, a great many people will attempt to power through a problem first. I wonder how many climbers languishing at the v5/v6 level could jump rather quickly to v8 or v9 if they learned some technique to use their strength more efficiently. Part of the utility of 4x4s or any sort of sustained climbing regime is that you have to keep using the techniques even when you're pumped or scared. All the technique in the world doesn't matter if you don't use it when it counts. I think SCC has a lot of good ways to make the techniques so automatic that you don't have to think about using them, and that's especially useful for a boulderer.


ceebo


Jul 18, 2011, 9:24 AM
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Re: [jbro_135] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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jbro_135 wrote:
spikeddem wrote:
ceebo wrote:
Learner wrote:
rtwilli4 wrote:
The SCC is an excellent book and I don't think that a V4/V5 boulderer is even close to a point of not needing more movement training. That's about what I boulder and I still do the exercises and re-read sections of the book on a weekly basis. And now that I think about it I think the book has helped my bouldering more than my route climbing. That is to say, the information has obviously helped me increase the hardest moves I can do, and I'm still learning how to apply it to longer routes.

Moreover, a lot of the content focuses of the physical and biological aspect of training. You will learn a lot about how your body works while you are climbing, and why you feel the way you do before, during and after. With this information you will be able to come up with specific training plans to target your problem areas.

IE, you might be able to do powerful moves well early in the problem, but have a hard time sustaining that power throughout a long sustained problem. Or maybe you're too wasted to climb during the last third of the day, when you're friends are still sending.

9 out of 10... is also one of the best books out there, and it covers a wider range of subjects, but in some ways is more specific than the SCC. I don't think either is better for bouldering (or any climbing) than the other. They are very different, both excellent and compliment each other well. Any climber would benefit from both.
I agree. The concepts in The Self-Coached Climber apply to climbing in general, and that includes bouldering. Topics such as the mechanics of movement and training your brain to attend to what's important while climbing, how and why your body works the way it does while climbing and how to maximize these systems are all topics that can be applied to bouldering just as easily as more sustained climbing. It helps a lot with improving movement and techique, which is what you're primarily challenged with in bouldering. So, I think it would be an excellent book for someone who wants to improve at bouldering.

Why is your name so horridly misleading?. To the point where you are my 3rd most valued poster.

Are Jay and I #2 and #1?

If jay wrote a program to automatically one star all ceebo's posts he would be my #1

Because the stars clearly mean something.. other than a way to piss jay off.


spikeddem


Jul 19, 2011, 12:41 PM
Post #20 of 21 (5712 views)
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Re: [JoeHamilton] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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JoeHamilton wrote:
thanx ,,ya something went wrong in the quote . To properly puncute would be like writeing a book. And not speaking. It is the internet and is a forum ,thus makeing for conversation . I wounder what the world be like if we spoke out our punctuation . blah,blah,blah,comma,piffblah blah period. Anyway thanx again for your input .

I'd definitely focus less on climbing and moron how to articulate yourself.


mr.tastycakes


Jul 19, 2011, 2:46 PM
Post #21 of 21 (5690 views)
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Registered: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 310

Re: [spikeddem] Self Coached Climber and Bouldering [In reply to]
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spikeddem wrote:
JoeHamilton wrote:
thanx ,,ya something went wrong in the quote . To properly puncute would be like writeing a book. And not speaking. It is the internet and is a forum ,thus makeing for conversation . I wounder what the world be like if we spoke out our punctuation . blah,blah,blah,comma,piffblah blah period. Anyway thanx again for your input .

I'd definitely focus less on climbing and moron how to articulate yourself.

That's a golden Freudian slip right there.


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