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ceebo
Jul 21, 2011, 9:23 PM
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Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic
Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic
Wed - Rest
Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic
Fri - Rest
Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering)
Sun - Rest
Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone.
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flesh
Jul 21, 2011, 11:24 PM
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ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone.
Personally, I don't like set schedules. Sometimes you need more rest than others. Also, certain types of climbing hurt your body more than others.
I like to try to climb every other day, usually bouldering unless I have a route project or I am taking a trip to a route climbing area. When I boulder I typically focus on the longest boulder problems possible which keeps you in decent route shape as well. When I"m super beat after.... maybe 3 or 4 climbing days, climbing every other, I'll take two days off. After two days off, If I have a boulder problem project outside, I'll hop on that, if I don't, like right now, I'll use the power to campus. This way I make sure and take advantage of my most powerful days to gain more power and it gives me a more controlled enviroment, I almost always take two days off before I campus.
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ceebo
Jul 24, 2011, 9:45 PM
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flesh wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone. Personally, I don't like set schedules. Sometimes you need more rest than others. Also, certain types of climbing hurt your body more than others. I like to try to climb every other day, usually bouldering unless I have a route project or I am taking a trip to a route climbing area. When I boulder I typically focus on the longest boulder problems possible which keeps you in decent route shape as well. When I"m super beat after.... maybe 3 or 4 climbing days, climbing every other, I'll take two days off. After two days off, If I have a boulder problem project outside, I'll hop on that, if I don't, like right now, I'll use the power to campus. This way I make sure and take advantage of my most powerful days to gain more power and it gives me a more controlled enviroment, I almost always take two days off before I campus.
Is 1 campus session per week enough to give gains?.
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spikeddem
Jul 25, 2011, 4:34 AM
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ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest
Ceebo, I mean this respectfully: You've taken all the fun out of climbing.
Personally, I think I'd die if I did even one session of 45 minute aerobic conditioning. The gains just aren't worth it, in my opinion. If you can stick to this strict of a schedule, props to you man. I hope it works well for you.
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flesh
Jul 25, 2011, 3:02 PM
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ceebo wrote: flesh wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone. Personally, I don't like set schedules. Sometimes you need more rest than others. Also, certain types of climbing hurt your body more than others. I like to try to climb every other day, usually bouldering unless I have a route project or I am taking a trip to a route climbing area. When I boulder I typically focus on the longest boulder problems possible which keeps you in decent route shape as well. When I"m super beat after.... maybe 3 or 4 climbing days, climbing every other, I'll take two days off. After two days off, If I have a boulder problem project outside, I'll hop on that, if I don't, like right now, I'll use the power to campus. This way I make sure and take advantage of my most powerful days to gain more power and it gives me a more controlled enviroment, I almost always take two days off before I campus. Is 1 campus session per week enough to give gains?.
yes, I only do it 2-3 x/month. IMO pure power sessions are hard on your body and it needs to recover, plus the repetitive movement aspect breaks you down.
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ceebo
Jul 25, 2011, 4:45 PM
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spikeddem wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Ceebo, I mean this respectfully: You've taken all the fun out of climbing. Personally, I think I'd die if I did even one session of 45 minute aerobic conditioning. The gains just aren't worth it, in my opinion. If you can stick to this strict of a schedule, props to you man. I hope it works well for you.
Well that's a matter of opinion. 45 minutes of climbing is not long if you actually love climbing, that is my opinion at least. VIR is also pure fun. Campusing and anaerobic don't appeal to me greatly but sending hard projects certainly does so i'm willing to do them to benefit that.
What kinde training plan would you suggest, out of interest.
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ghisino
Jul 26, 2011, 1:04 PM
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easy thoughts
-your sessions look very short, unless you mean actual climbing time without counting the rests (then it looks ok!)
If you counted the rests too and you've been training for at least 2 years, then it looks like a good schedule to be in constant good shape and meybe see a performance increase over one season, without necessarily making huge gains in the long period. You might gest stuck on a plateau sooner or later.
-don't be afraid to mix it up a bit and have microcycles at least in terms of volume.
If you like to train really hard, you know where your body's limits lie in terms of injury, and you still want to be in good shape quite often, try 2 very hard weeks (the hardest you can) followed by an "active recovery" week.
Example of my typical active recovery week, assuming that saturday is a performance day :
tue (or wed) :very light aerobic (or nothing at all : basically just saying hello at the wall)
thur (or friday) : "reminder" session.
This is basically a careful warmup, optionally followed by a climb that is hard-ish but I can complete fluently, and a very low volume of very intense climbing with massive rests, shorter than my objective (eg 2 moves every 2 minutes for boulder problems, 5 moves every 5' for PE, 15 moves every 10' for pure endurance routes)
It is very important that on "reminder" sessions you focus on giving your absolute best on each try, that the intensity is nearly maximal, and that you stop very early.
Ideally you should notice a progress over a handful tries and stop right when you feel that you're ready to make the best try of the session.
The point is not to train anything, just to remind how it feels to pull hard/fight.
For me it would be as little as 5 tries on cruxes or 2 laps on the circuit, but i guess the feel of it is more important than strict numbers.
-looking at each crag day as a performance day is a bad idea. At least, that's what i found out for myself, it could be different for you.
On one side i feel it puts a nasty psychological pressure on me and over the time it makes me constantly underperform mentally.
On the other i feel that some crag days and especially some outdoor bouldering days turn out to be the most intense training sessions i have in a season.
So, when you go to the crag, decide during the warmup if your psyche and the coditions are good enough for serious performance (but then, give it your 100%, use your best shoes, rest as much as needes, wait for that magic breeze, etc) or if it will be a training day or even just an easy one.
-it is wise (for injury prevention and psyche, and if you're lucky even for training value) to have different kinds of objectives across the year and use those as a rough periodization. Your bouldering season will be your strenght cycle, your sport season your PE cycle, your trad/multipitch/big wall season (if you fancy it) your recovery and base work cycle...
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brockfisher05
Jul 26, 2011, 6:41 PM
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I am new to this site and was sifting through the forum and thought I would add my two cents to this thread...
Personally I find it hard to comment on someones training routine since every time I am in the gym and see people Conditioning it's always so different from one to the other since everyone is so different.
Personally I found this article with Ben Moon in it really helpful in setting my priorities in order when it comes to "getting better"
Hopefully it helps!http://www.climbandmore.com/climbing,431,0,1,training.html
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tessien
Jul 26, 2011, 10:15 PM
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ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone.
That looks pretty awesome, however in most sports you typically want to train your anaerobic system first. If you train your aerobic system then switch over you'll have fatigued a number of the muscles that are highly necessary for supporting yourself on anaerobic climbs.
I'm not an amazing climber by any means, but I know this applies in most other sports.
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sungam
Jul 26, 2011, 11:02 PM
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brockfisher05 wrote: I am new to this site and was sifting through the forum and thought I would add my two cents to this thread... Personally I find it hard to comment on someones training routine since every time I am in the gym and see people Conditioning it's always so different from one to the other since everyone is so different. Personally I found this article with Ben Moon in it really helpful in setting my priorities in order when it comes to "getting better" Hopefully it helps! http://www.climbandmore.com/...31,0,1,training.html
Edit to add: Ben Moon is the man!
(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 27, 2011, 12:13 AM)
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brockfisher05
Jul 27, 2011, 12:08 AM
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My bad!
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ceebo
Jul 28, 2011, 7:09 PM
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tessien wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone. That looks pretty awesome, however in most sports you typically want to train your anaerobic system first. If you train your aerobic system then switch over you'll have fatigued a number of the muscles that are highly necessary for supporting yourself on anaerobic climbs. I'm not an amazing climber by any means, but I know this applies in most other sports.
Hmm ok, thnx for the tip. I just assumed aerobic would also double up as a good warm up for the anaerobic.
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eRJe
Jul 28, 2011, 7:26 PM
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tessien wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone. That looks pretty awesome, however in most sports you typically want to train your anaerobic system first. If you train your aerobic system then switch over you'll have fatigued a number of the muscles that are highly necessary for supporting yourself on anaerobic climbs. I'm not an amazing climber by any means, but I know this applies in most other sports.
Are you talking about in a single work out, or in terms of your periodization? In terms of periodization, one should always build up their aerobic base before starting to work on power or anaerobic stamina.
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Grizvok
Jul 29, 2011, 1:07 AM
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eRJe wrote: tessien wrote: ceebo wrote: Mon - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Tues - 45 min aerobic - 20 min anaerobic Wed - Rest Thur - Power (campusing) - 45 min aerobic Fri - Rest Sat - VIR CIR (bouldering) Sun - Rest Would this be viable for all round constant gains?. Obviously crag days (that will only be performance days) will replace what ever was on that training day. If a power day was to follow a crag day i would replace it for a light aerobic session for that week alone. That looks pretty awesome, however in most sports you typically want to train your anaerobic system first. If you train your aerobic system then switch over you'll have fatigued a number of the muscles that are highly necessary for supporting yourself on anaerobic climbs. I'm not an amazing climber by any means, but I know this applies in most other sports. Hey Tessien Are you talking about in a single work out, or in terms of your periodization? In terms of periodization, one should always build up their aerobic base before starting to work on power or anaerobic stamina.
He's talking about a single workout.
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tessien
Jul 29, 2011, 6:52 AM
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Grizvok wrote: eRJe wrote: Hey Tessien Are you talking about in a single work out, or in terms of your periodization? In terms of periodization, one should always build up their aerobic base before starting to work on power or anaerobic stamina. He's talking about a single workout.
This. Ceebo posted his intentions as a series of workouts over a week, so thats how I responded to them.
In reply to: Hmm ok, thnx for the tip. I just assumed aerobic would also double up as a good warm up for the anaerobic.
A few minutes of aerobic is a good warm up. 5-10 max depending on the average fitness of an individual, after that point the body is pretty much fully warmed up, and any further exertion will just hamper your performance in the anaerobic section.
(This post was edited by tessien on Jul 29, 2011, 6:54 AM)
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ceebo
Jul 30, 2011, 8:33 PM
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tessien wrote: Grizvok wrote: eRJe wrote: Hey Tessien Are you talking about in a single work out, or in terms of your periodization? In terms of periodization, one should always build up their aerobic base before starting to work on power or anaerobic stamina. He's talking about a single workout. This. Ceebo posted his intentions as a series of workouts over a week, so thats how I responded to them. In reply to: Hmm ok, thnx for the tip. I just assumed aerobic would also double up as a good warm up for the anaerobic. A few minutes of aerobic is a good warm up. 5-10 max depending on the average fitness of an individual, after that point the body is pretty much fully warmed up, and any further exertion will just hamper your performance in the anaerobic section.
Ok, but just to verify as their seems to be some conflicts from that other poster. Both anaerobic and aerobic can be trained together on a weekly basis yes?.
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spikeddem
Aug 1, 2011, 12:09 AM
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tessien wrote: Grizvok wrote: eRJe wrote: Hey Tessien Are you talking about in a single work out, or in terms of your periodization? In terms of periodization, one should always build up their aerobic base before starting to work on power or anaerobic stamina. He's talking about a single workout. This. Ceebo posted his intentions as a series of workouts over a week, so thats how I responded to them. In reply to: Hmm ok, thnx for the tip. I just assumed aerobic would also double up as a good warm up for the anaerobic. A few minutes of aerobic is a good warm up. 5-10 max depending on the average fitness of an individual, after that point the body is pretty much fully warmed up, and any further exertion will just hamper your performance in the anaerobic section.
OK. If I'm understanding you correctly, I disagree. (A lot of the following is my own opinion, and I don't necessarily mean to state it as fact. It does, however, hold VERY true for me.)
Does climbing a four 5.9s warm you up to climb 5.12? Absolutely not. Personally, If I'm projecting, say, a 5.12c, then I need to climb a 12b or a 12a that I'm familiar with to be fully warmed-up. Similarly, if I'm planning on trying a V6, I need to climb at least a V4+/V5 route that has somewhat similar demands. In route climbing, flash pump is an issue if you don't do this, and in bouldering, I find I'm not able to apply as much force as I may require.
Warming-up isn't a five, ten, or even 30 minute deal for me. I can probably be properly warmed-up for a route at my personal limit after 45-60 minutes (including both rest and climbing). The greatest chunk of rest is required between the last route and the first redpoint attempt.
The other option is to just get flash pump, blow the send, de-pump over the next 30-60 minutes, and then be able to climb hard after that, but I enjoy the way I warm-up.
Of course, training anaerobic endurance is a bit different than a hard redpoint attempt, but the last thing you want is a flash pump during a 4x4.
You're a personal trainer, right? Think of it like a one-rep max attempt. If someone is trying 200 lbs, they won't just do a 10-rep set of 135 lbs, and then jump to their one-rep max attempt. They'll probably be better off doing 10x135, 5x155, 3x175, 2x185 or something along those lines. (Those are kind of estimates, it's been a LONG time since I've lifted weights, especially for one-rep max.)
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flesh
Aug 1, 2011, 5:20 PM
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I vote for 30 minutes of warm up. It does depend on your ability.
If your max is 5.8. You probably don't need many 5.6 warm ups to be optimal.
If you going to campus with a 20lb weight vest on single pad rungs, you better damn well be warmed up or your gonna blow something. (When I campus with weight I warm up on the same rung with no weight first, wait ten minutes, do it with ten lbs, wait ten minutes, then go to 20lbs or else the tendons in my forearms feel like they're separating from the muscle, this is all after warming up for 30 minutes)
It's better to fall on the side of warming up to much than to little, nothing slows progress more than injury.
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tessien
Aug 2, 2011, 5:59 AM
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spikeddem wrote: You're a personal trainer, right? Think of it like a one-rep max attempt. If someone is trying 200 lbs, they won't just do a 10-rep set of 135 lbs, and then jump to their one-rep max attempt. They'll probably be better off doing 10x135, 5x155, 3x175, 2x185 or something along those lines. (Those are kind of estimates, it's been a LONG time since I've lifted weights, especially for one-rep max.)
The majority of this is entirely correct, you would certainly perform a series of warm-up sets prior to lifting your highest weight.
However, before you lift anything, you should be spending 5-10 minutes on something like a mix of stationary bike and rowing machine, this warms up the major muscle groups that will be used in the next exercises. This is what I was referring to as the warm-up period.
When you begin lifting weights, you are no longer considered warming up, but rather are lifting, even though you would still be performing warm-up sets. Its an awkward way of phrasing, but there you have it.
So what you have is:
Warm-up
Ramping up period where you approach maximal effort
Maximal Effort
Either cool down, or a new exercise.
Like I said before, I'm not an amazing climber by any means, I'm just applying what I know from most other training regimes to what ceebo posted.
(This post was edited by tessien on Aug 2, 2011, 6:01 AM)
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spikeddem
Aug 2, 2011, 2:52 PM
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tessien wrote: spikeddem wrote: You're a personal trainer, right? Think of it like a one-rep max attempt. If someone is trying 200 lbs, they won't just do a 10-rep set of 135 lbs, and then jump to their one-rep max attempt. They'll probably be better off doing 10x135, 5x155, 3x175, 2x185 or something along those lines. (Those are kind of estimates, it's been a LONG time since I've lifted weights, especially for one-rep max.) The majority of this is entirely correct, you would certainly perform a series of warm-up sets prior to lifting your highest weight. However, before you lift anything, you should be spending 5-10 minutes on something like a mix of stationary bike and rowing machine, this warms up the major muscle groups that will be used in the next exercises. This is what I was referring to as the warm-up period. When you begin lifting weights, you are no longer considered warming up, but rather are lifting, even though you would still be performing warm-up sets. Its an awkward way of phrasing, but there you have it. So what you have is: Warm-up Ramping up period where you approach maximal effort Maximal Effort Either cool down, or a new exercise. Like I said before, I'm not an amazing climber by any means, I'm just applying what I know from most other training regimes to what ceebo posted.
OK then, I guess I encompass a bit more when I use the term "warm-up." I can live with that.
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