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acorneau
Jun 30, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Translation via Google:
========================
Fixe-fader starts making the Alien after reaching an agreement with the widow of David Wagoneer
The guidelines David Wagoneer, inventor of the Aliens, left his widow before she died were clear: the company to continue with making the aliens would have to be of medium size, would have to continue with the name, the same philosophy and he performed precise manufacturing, including machinery and raw materials. Finally, after 1 ½ years of negotiations, Fixe-Faders has obtained the patent, the machinery and all the knowledge transmitted and begins manufacturing
Fixe-Faders begins to manufacture the original Alien
There have been many major brands of both American and European material that have sought a patent for the legendary Alien Cams. But the guidelines that the inventor and manufacturer, David Wagoneer, left his wife before his death were unclear, and all aimed at the spirit of your device is not lost.
Thus, to avoid the loss of name and got a more industrial production could be considered less careful, the company proceeded with the patent should be small to medium size, never an industry giant, but with extensive experience in manufacturing workshop High quality. The name should be retained, and the granting of the patent must include machinery and knowledge. Even suppliers of raw materials, carefully selected, should remain the same. In short: Wagoneer that he wanted to continue making exact replicas and perform the same level of reliability and good work he performed.
And after eighteen months of negotiations, the former U.S. manufacturing resumes at Barcelona, to achieve company-Faders Fixe patent after considering the widow who was the most suitable plant for this. In fact, the whole machinery moved from Colorado to St. Quirze Besora, and Nadia, the widow of David Wagoneer has been two months in Catalonia teaching all the secrets and tricks of manufacture.
From the workshop Fixe-Faders us that is quite manual and craft, which was already known by thousands of users worldwide Alien, who appreciated the constructive excellence of these devices and their effectiveness on the wall. Once past the learning period, and to guarantee the appearance of your device cam by using the same machinery and even the same original raw material, soon will begin manufacturing the end-user. It is expected that the first Alien in September are on sale in the international market. May be purchased in blue, green, yellow, gray and red.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Jun 30, 2011, 12:38 AM)
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TarheelJD
Jun 30, 2011, 1:08 AM
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What I haven't been able to figure out about this whole CCH story is which patents they are talking about. The two patents I have been able to find that are registered to David both expired years ago. I'm not saying that this prevents someone from selling the company (its designs, manufacturing knowledge, etc), but as far as I could tell from an admittedly cursory patent search, the patents covering aliens have expired. For those of you that are curious, the patents I am looking at are 4,832,289 and 4,923,160.
I realize that this press release is an extremely rough translation but this isn't the first time I've read something referring to some mythical patent preventing anyone from making and selling their own "alien" cam.
Regardless, am I missing a patent somewhere? Anyone know more to the story?
(This post was edited by TarheelJD on Jun 30, 2011, 1:10 AM)
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cracklover
Jun 30, 2011, 2:52 PM
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Fantastic! And I assume that if they're made in Europe, they must have a CE stamp.
GO
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JimTitt
Jun 30, 2011, 3:33 PM
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cracklover wrote: Fantastic! And I assume that if they're made in Europe, they must have a CE stamp. GO
Nope, only if they are sold in Europe. Though I´d be suprised if they don´t, Fixe/Faders are certainly competent enough.
Jim
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cracklover
Jun 30, 2011, 4:48 PM
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JimTitt wrote: cracklover wrote: Fantastic! And I assume that if they're made in Europe, they must have a CE stamp. GO Nope, only if they are sold in Europe. Though I´d be suprised if they don´t, Fixe/Faders are certainly competent enough. Jim
Thanks for the clarification, but yeah, I was assuming that if made in Europe, they'd be sold in Europe. Can't see how there'd be a market in making them if you couldn't sell any in Europe!
GO
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hosh
Jun 30, 2011, 5:39 PM
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This is exiting news. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Aliens on the market soon...
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sungam
Jul 1, 2011, 4:00 PM
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Excite!
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stealth
Jul 1, 2011, 11:15 PM
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hosh wrote: This is exiting news. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Aliens on the market soon...
I've seen them here! stars with no stripes .............
Like 1/2 and 1/2 in coffee?
An alien is always handy to have around to play with when climbing.
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jt512
Jul 2, 2011, 1:14 AM
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stealth wrote: hosh wrote: This is exiting news. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Aliens on the market soon... I've seen them here! stars with no stripes ............. Like 1/2 and 1/2 in coffee? An alien is always handy to have around to play with when climbing.
Enough gibberish, Enigma.
*plonk*
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acorneau
Jul 28, 2011, 5:40 PM
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Just saw this on MP...
From Totem Cam website:
In reply to: The Basic Cam uses the traditional internal spring and sheath trigger systems to get a narrow head and a very flexible body. We would like to express our sincere appreciation to David Waggoner, passed in October 2009, designer of this awesome design. We have done our bit to try to improve it: flexible trigger wire ropes system and rounded lobe edges.
http://www.totemcams.com/...=3&su=1307635863
Looks like either they're sourcing them from Fixe (who is also in Spain) or they're making a rip-off version.
Edit to fix cheeze-tittage
(This post was edited by acorneau on Jul 28, 2011, 5:42 PM)
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sungam
Jul 28, 2011, 5:51 PM
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I thought Fixe owned/made the totems?
EDIT: I was wrong.
(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 28, 2011, 5:54 PM)
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patto
Jul 29, 2011, 7:11 AM
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Not only that but they are shipping in less than two weeks!!!
http://www.totemcams.com/catalogue/index.php?id=1&f=2
While some may find a rip off version offensive for some reason. All in all it will be great for climbers. Competition is fantastic.
(This post was edited by patto on Jul 29, 2011, 8:36 AM)
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cracklover
Jul 29, 2011, 4:02 PM
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acorneau wrote: Just saw this on MP... From Totem Cam website: In reply to: The Basic Cam uses the traditional internal spring and sheath trigger systems to get a narrow head and a very flexible body. We would like to express our sincere appreciation to David Waggoner, passed in October 2009, designer of this awesome design. We have done our bit to try to improve it: flexible trigger wire ropes system and rounded lobe edges. Looks like either they're sourcing them from Fixe (who is also in Spain) or they're making a rip-off version. Edit to fix cheeze-tittage
Very cool. From one crappy source of Aliens, to no sources of Aliens, to two great sources of Aliens.
Yay!
GO
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csproul
Jul 29, 2011, 4:27 PM
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It also looks like the totem basic version is only made in green through red and not in all the sizes.
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mattm
Jul 29, 2011, 8:37 PM
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csproul wrote: It also looks like the totem basic version is only made in green through red and not in all the sizes.
I kind of like that they pared it down. The smaller blue and black aliens have better alternatives and I always felt like I had too many when I carried blue-red alien and the full run of offsets (black-blue through yellow-red) This seems like a great compromise.
Note that Mikel pointed out their Red is NOT the exact same as the legacy Red. It's a bit smaller so there's no longer the "size gap" between legacy yellow and red (and the reason they made a gray).
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atdrennen
Jul 29, 2011, 8:48 PM
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Has anyone seen a release, or communicated with Fixe or Totem on when these will actually be available in the US?
I did see the September post above. Can anyone confirm if that's correct?
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mattm
Jul 29, 2011, 8:49 PM
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Totem Site says Oct 3rd for Non-Euro orders.
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vegastradguy
Aug 9, 2011, 9:16 PM
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atdrennen wrote: Has anyone seen a release, or communicated with Fixe or Totem on when these will actually be available in the US? I did see the September post above. Can anyone confirm if that's correct?
Fixe USA will not confirm Sept, although that is their target date. Nor will they confirm pricing, although $65 seems to be everyone's best guess.
Based on the pre-pro's I saw last week...if they release by Sept, it'll be a miracle. If they charge only $65, i'd be shocked.
Time will tell.
Alright, that's it, folks. My last post on rc.com. Hope you enjoyed it. See you on the dark side.
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boymeetsrock
Aug 10, 2011, 1:54 PM
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Wait... what!?!
You're done with RC?
You will be missed. Thanks for all of your great contributions to this site. Happy trails.
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styndall
Aug 10, 2011, 3:18 PM
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Where's vegastradguy going? Defecting to mountainproject? Becoming a monk?
I'll miss your reviews, man. They've been very helpful over the years.
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maldaly
Aug 10, 2011, 3:22 PM
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I got to play with a set of the Fixe Aliens at the show. Here are my thoughts, cross-posted from Supertopo:
On a good note, at the trade show last week I held in my hands a perfect Alien, now made by Fixe in Spain. I guess they bought the company from Dave's widow and are manufacturing what appears to be the v.2 Aliens. I hope they didn't pay too much for the company...
Here's the good things:
Fixe is a well established Euro company with ISO 9000 compliance and the knowledge and resources to get things done.
In order to be produced in the Euro-zone they have to have the CE rating and testing. They can't simply stamp the unit or advertise that they are CE/UIAA as CCH did.
The Aliens had that sweet, "Alien" snap that new ones always had. I could not tell any difference betwen the Ailiens they were showing and the most recent ones on US store shelves last year.
Here're the questionable things:
They said they were going to deliver next month but had no idea what the price was. Their target price was $65. Now I've been in the manufacturing world and know well that "delivery next month" and "we're not sure what the price will be" are pretty incompatible concepts. If they are delivering next month, they need to have units on the shelf now, packaging completed, testing and certifications finished and a distribution plan in place. They also know their production costs and, margins and prices. So my guess is that you won't see anything next month.
The other questionable thing is that the units displayed said "Made in USA". The rep there told me that part of their agreement with Nadia was that they would be identical in every way to the CCH version, including the markings, "CCH" and "Made in USA". But if they are made in Spain, like they say, that can't say "Made in USA" or customs will stop them cold. So just a little more weirdness. Rep told me the samples I was holding were made at Fixe in Spain but they were absolutely identical to the last CCH Aliens I saw that came out of Laramie. Even the milling artifacts on the lobes and the sides of the cable head were identical. Hmmmm.
I'm also very very skeptical of hitting the $65 target price. When we were negotiating with Dave to buy CCH, we took samples to China for a quote after being unable to find anyone who would touch them in the USA. The best quote we got for 25,000 units was LOC, $32 FOB China. Going through the normal distribution steps would make them a $150 cam. Now I know that Spain's economy is in the toilet but I'll bet it still costs more to produce in Spain than it does in China. So, like I said, I'm skeptical.
Whatever. It's great to see that a reputable company has taken over the production of the Aliens and I'll be one of the first in line to replace my old used ones.
I hope they can do it.
Mal
BTW, I talked to a rep, not to Kevin, and reps are notorious disseminators of bad information. Kevin, you out there?
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patto
Aug 10, 2011, 3:35 PM
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Thanks for the great post maldaly. You're an asset to the community. 
maldaly wrote: I'm also very very skeptical of hitting the $65 target price. When we were negotiating with Dave to buy CCH, we took samples to China for a quote after being unable to find anyone who would touch them in the USA. The best quote we got for 25,000 units was LOC, $32 FOB China. Going through the normal distribution steps would make them a $150 cam. Now I know that Spain's economy is in the toilet but I'll bet it still costs more to produce in Spain than it does in China. So, like I said, I'm skeptical.
Great insight into the manufacturing of consumer products. However this all begs the question, if what you say is the case, how can Totem sell their Alien imitation cams for $59.95? They don't seem too dissimilar in design.
http://www.totemcams.com/...dex.php?id=1&f=2
(This post was edited by patto on Aug 10, 2011, 3:36 PM)
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Sad to see you go, man. Best of luck with the future! 
1
