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Birth of a Rack
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ablanchard17


Jul 28, 2011, 9:25 PM
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Birth of a Rack
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Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.


(This post was edited by ablanchard17 on Jul 28, 2011, 9:25 PM)


milesenoell


Jul 28, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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ablanchard17 wrote:
Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.


your comments are a bit cliche so don't expect a great response on here, but hopefully they are true and well learned.


milesenoell


Jul 28, 2011, 10:12 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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Also, allow me to recommend backing up your ascender when TR soloing.


ablanchard17


Jul 28, 2011, 10:27 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.


milesenoell


Jul 28, 2011, 10:48 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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ablanchard17 wrote:
With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.


I said about the same to the many people who suggested that I backup my system for about six years. Then I went to lean back and take a break and the cam wasn't engaged, and now I think about it a little differently.


I'm not 17, I'm 33 with a 4 year old son, so my values are naturally different than yours. But, since I'm still recovering from the surgery after breaking 4 bones in my foot and getting screws and a plate (that need to come out eventually) that all could have been avoided with a simple stopper knot after I got off the ground... well, I decided it was worth it to me after all these years to start adding a back up.

I don't mean to preach, I just thought I'd mention it. I do apologise for the thread derailment.


(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jul 28, 2011, 10:54 PM)


ablanchard17


Jul 28, 2011, 10:57 PM
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Re: [milesenoell] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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yeah. of course if the cam isnt engaged and you lean back your in some trouble. but there are only 2 ways of the cam not being engaged.

1) not engaged by user ( self explanatory user derp )

2) somehow pressed/smushed/scraped against the rock in some crazy way that would cause it to disengage. I really have no idea how anyone could pull this off on accident

and I have my backpack clipped to the rope to keep it weighted to a knot would be a mild pain in the ass, as my backpack's weight would be on me. unless there is some other way of doing it. or I am derping in envisioning how it would work.


Partner j_ung


Jul 29, 2011, 3:59 AM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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ablanchard17 wrote:
I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.

ablanchard17 wrote:
With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.

Those appear to contradict each other.

One locking carabiner, you say?




(This post was edited by j_ung on Jul 29, 2011, 4:00 AM)
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gimmeslack


Jul 29, 2011, 5:02 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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...Funny, tho I still suck, I've been climbing for over 30 years and I would refuse a TR with only one locker as master point.Shocked

I also TR solo a little, and would never hang on a single ascender w/out some other backup.

ymmv

PS
I could not agree more with your choice to learn to place passive pro before investing in "more mechanical" pieces.


sungam


Jul 29, 2011, 7:18 AM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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Dude, don't be a little 17 year old know it all dickhead*. Ascenders are gash for TR, even when backed up.
At least back it up. It is not "impossible" for it to slip. Weird stuff happens.

There have been several users on this site who have had TRS devices slip on them, and almost all of them knew a hell of a lot more about climbing then you do.

So back it up, and consider getting a different device (by "ascender" I am assuming you mean a handled ascender), one that is made to be used for TRS. And when you get that, back it up.

*This is not a personal attack. Notice I am not saying he is one, just that he shouldn't be one.

Edit to add: I know a lot about dickhead 17 year olds that think they are god's gift to TRS. I used to be one.


(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 29, 2011, 7:33 AM)


jeepnphreak


Jul 29, 2011, 8:58 AM
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Meh, I've clipped worse. Cool


surfstar


Jul 29, 2011, 10:21 AM
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Is Darwin not taught in grade schools?


ablanchard17


Jul 29, 2011, 10:56 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
ablanchard17 wrote:
I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.

ablanchard17 wrote:
With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.

Those appear to contradict each other.

One locking carabiner, you say?

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5847;[/image]

odd. what conditions did it break under?


also I just thought of a good way to back it up that i spaced earlier. I have my rope on a figure 8 knot up top at the anchor. so I will just clip the non-weighted side of the rope to me 15 or so feet off of the ground.


(This post was edited by ablanchard17 on Jul 29, 2011, 11:04 AM)


ianwatson


Jul 29, 2011, 1:06 PM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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jeepnphreak wrote:
[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5847;[/image]


Meh, I've clipped worse. Cool
i use some of those BD lockers, looks bomber to me!


styndall


Jul 29, 2011, 1:22 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
ablanchard17 wrote:
I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.

ablanchard17 wrote:
With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.

Those appear to contradict each other.

One locking carabiner, you say?

[image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5847;[/image]

What happened to this carabiner?


Partner j_ung


Jul 29, 2011, 1:32 PM
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Re: [styndall] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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Bolt end of a fixed draw.


Partner j_ung


Jul 29, 2011, 1:33 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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ablanchard17 wrote:
also I just thought of a good way to back it up that i spaced earlier. I have my rope on a figure 8 knot up top at the anchor. so I will just clip the non-weighted side of the rope to me 15 or so feet off of the ground.

I think that's a pimp idea. You might even want to tie in short every 15 feet or so. Smile


(This post was edited by j_ung on Jul 29, 2011, 1:34 PM)


ablanchard17


Jul 29, 2011, 7:33 PM
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Re: [j_ung] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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I was planning on "Updating" the backup knot every 20 feet or so. rather than "stack-up" a bunch of knots. sure stopping and untying the know technically leaves a brief window of un-backed-upness ( new word ) but a simple check of the ascender ( making sure the cam is engaged ) would be fine before updating the knot. seeing as the knot is for the event the ascender fails to arrest on the rope.


Partner j_ung


Jul 30, 2011, 5:33 AM
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You can also clip into knot #2, and then unclip from knot #1.


markc


Aug 1, 2011, 1:42 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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Check out the Climbing tech tip on toprope self-belay. This is pretty much the system I use, with my preferred autolock belay device on one strand, and clipping in to pre-tied alpine butterflies on the other. When you top out (or burn out) it's easy to unclip the backup and rap off.

http://www.climbing.com/...techtips/ttsport253/


petsfed


Aug 1, 2011, 2:49 PM
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Re: [ablanchard17] Birth of a Rack [In reply to]
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ablanchard17 wrote:
Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.

You clearly haven't placed enough cams, or enough nuts, to recognize the utility of either.

Neither is better than the other, and I climb cracks on a regular basis that are impossible to protect with nuts. I also climb cracks on a regular basis that are impossible to protect with cams. I'd say I do both with equal frequency.

Also, there's a world of difference between excessive redundancy (e.g. insisting on "backing up" the belay loop because of a fundamental misunderstanding of how it is constructed) and not understanding how the backup actually works. The concern on TRS is not that the rope might break. The concern is that the ascender might not do its job, since it is a mechanical device (which you've already maligned).


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