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ablanchard17
Jul 29, 2011, 4:25 AM
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Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.
(This post was edited by ablanchard17 on Jul 29, 2011, 4:25 AM)
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milesenoell
Jul 29, 2011, 5:09 AM
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ablanchard17 wrote: Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.
your comments are a bit cliche so don't expect a great response on here, but hopefully they are true and well learned.
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milesenoell
Jul 29, 2011, 5:12 AM
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Also, allow me to recommend backing up your ascender when TR soloing.
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ablanchard17
Jul 29, 2011, 5:27 AM
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With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.
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milesenoell
Jul 29, 2011, 5:48 AM
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ablanchard17 wrote: With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.
I said about the same to the many people who suggested that I backup my system for about six years. Then I went to lean back and take a break and the cam wasn't engaged, and now I think about it a little differently.
I'm not 17, I'm 33 with a 4 year old son, so my values are naturally different than yours. But, since I'm still recovering from the surgery after breaking 4 bones in my foot and getting screws and a plate (that need to come out eventually) that all could have been avoided with a simple stopper knot after I got off the ground... well, I decided it was worth it to me after all these years to start adding a back up.
I don't mean to preach, I just thought I'd mention it. I do apologise for the thread derailment.
(This post was edited by milesenoell on Jul 29, 2011, 5:54 AM)
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ablanchard17
Jul 29, 2011, 5:57 AM
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yeah. of course if the cam isnt engaged and you lean back your in some trouble. but there are only 2 ways of the cam not being engaged.
1) not engaged by user ( self explanatory user derp )
2) somehow pressed/smushed/scraped against the rock in some crazy way that would cause it to disengage. I really have no idea how anyone could pull this off on accident
and I have my backpack clipped to the rope to keep it weighted to a knot would be a mild pain in the ass, as my backpack's weight would be on me. unless there is some other way of doing it. or I am derping in envisioning how it would work.
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j_ung
Jul 29, 2011, 10:59 AM
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ablanchard17 wrote: I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.
ablanchard17 wrote: With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails.
Those appear to contradict each other.
One locking carabiner, you say?
(This post was edited by j_ung on Jul 29, 2011, 11:00 AM)
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gimmeslack
Jul 29, 2011, 12:02 PM
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...Funny, tho I still suck, I've been climbing for over 30 years and I would refuse a TR with only one locker as master point.
I also TR solo a little, and would never hang on a single ascender w/out some other backup.
ymmv
PS
I could not agree more with your choice to learn to place passive pro before investing in "more mechanical" pieces.
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sungam
Jul 29, 2011, 2:18 PM
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Dude, don't be a little 17 year old know it all dickhead*. Ascenders are gash for TR, even when backed up.
At least back it up. It is not "impossible" for it to slip. Weird stuff happens.
There have been several users on this site who have had TRS devices slip on them, and almost all of them knew a hell of a lot more about climbing then you do.
So back it up, and consider getting a different device (by "ascender" I am assuming you mean a handled ascender), one that is made to be used for TRS. And when you get that, back it up.
*This is not a personal attack. Notice I am not saying he is one, just that he shouldn't be one.
Edit to add: I know a lot about dickhead 17 year olds that think they are god's gift to TRS. I used to be one.
(This post was edited by sungam on Jul 29, 2011, 2:33 PM)
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jeepnphreak
Jul 29, 2011, 3:58 PM
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Meh, I've clipped worse. 
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surfstar
Jul 29, 2011, 5:21 PM
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Is Darwin not taught in grade schools?
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ablanchard17
Jul 29, 2011, 5:56 PM
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j_ung wrote: ablanchard17 wrote: I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school. ablanchard17 wrote: With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails. Those appear to contradict each other. One locking carabiner, you say? [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5847;[/image]
odd. what conditions did it break under?
also I just thought of a good way to back it up that i spaced earlier. I have my rope on a figure 8 knot up top at the anchor. so I will just clip the non-weighted side of the rope to me 15 or so feet off of the ground.
(This post was edited by ablanchard17 on Jul 29, 2011, 6:04 PM)
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styndall
Jul 29, 2011, 8:22 PM
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j_ung wrote: ablanchard17 wrote: I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school. ablanchard17 wrote: With the setup i have at the local crag the ascender does not really need backing up. it would sort of be akin to saying using a single locking biner on a 3 piece anchor is a lack of redundancy because if the biner failed the whole system fails. Those appear to contradict each other. One locking carabiner, you say? [image]http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=5847;[/image]
What happened to this carabiner?
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j_ung
Jul 29, 2011, 8:32 PM
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Bolt end of a fixed draw.
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ablanchard17
Jul 30, 2011, 2:33 AM
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I was planning on "Updating" the backup knot every 20 feet or so. rather than "stack-up" a bunch of knots. sure stopping and untying the know technically leaves a brief window of un-backed-upness ( new word ) but a simple check of the ascender ( making sure the cam is engaged ) would be fine before updating the knot. seeing as the knot is for the event the ascender fails to arrest on the rope.
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j_ung
Jul 30, 2011, 12:33 PM
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You can also clip into knot #2, and then unclip from knot #1.
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markc
Aug 1, 2011, 8:42 PM
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Check out the Climbing tech tip on toprope self-belay. This is pretty much the system I use, with my preferred autolock belay device on one strand, and clipping in to pre-tied alpine butterflies on the other. When you top out (or burn out) it's easy to unclip the backup and rap off.
http://www.climbing.com/...techtips/ttsport253/
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petsfed
Aug 1, 2011, 9:49 PM
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ablanchard17 wrote: Yesterday I got a set of black diamond nuts. and 2 long slings for "aid climbing" while on TR with an ascender. I do definately plan on leading trad but right now im focusing on getting good at placing gear. especially passive, I have noticed that people are too inclined to trust things that are "More mechanical" and with more moving parts, such as spring loaded cams. when in fact nuts can reach ultra bombproof levels where there is just nowhere for the thing to go. im 17 btw I have been climbing since middle school.
You clearly haven't placed enough cams, or enough nuts, to recognize the utility of either.
Neither is better than the other, and I climb cracks on a regular basis that are impossible to protect with nuts. I also climb cracks on a regular basis that are impossible to protect with cams. I'd say I do both with equal frequency.
Also, there's a world of difference between excessive redundancy (e.g. insisting on "backing up" the belay loop because of a fundamental misunderstanding of how it is constructed) and not understanding how the backup actually works. The concern on TRS is not that the rope might break. The concern is that the ascender might not do its job, since it is a mechanical device (which you've already maligned).
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