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Stoves


Aug 2, 2011, 12:35 AM
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Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle)
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Summary: After slipping and losing her grip a 26 yo woman falls 600 feet to her death. This was during Sunday amid stormy, wet weather.)


RIP. Article:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/08/01/MNL71KI1HM.DTL


singletrackmike


Aug 2, 2011, 2:28 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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From what I've read, it was a hiker (who wasn't actually climbing).


MarcelS


Aug 2, 2011, 3:57 AM
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Re: [singletrackmike] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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singletrackmike wrote:
From what I've read, it was a hiker (who wasn't actually climbing).

According to the report it was indeed a hiker who has been warned not to do the route because of the bad weather. This accident made it even to the local Dutch newspapers....


redonkulus


Aug 2, 2011, 4:50 AM
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Re: [Stoves] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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This is from the AP story about the incident. They should require an entrance exam about the outdoors before they let just anyone into Yosemite.

"The last person to fall and die on Half Dome was also from San Ramon. Majoj Kumar died in June 2009. The hikers who witnessed the fall were so frightened that 40 people refused to move and had to be rescued from the dome, Cobb said"

Italics mine. /facepalm

Sorry to hear about her death, another case of people unprepared for bad weather and climbing/hiking when they shouldn't be. It's a shame because it's so easy to prevent.


onrockandice


Aug 2, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: [singletrackmike] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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Is it possible to harness up and do that hike with the cables via-ferratta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_ferrata? Seems like that might be the best way to approach that sucker. Love to hear from anyone who's done the hike.

edit: added link to via-ferratta which takes you to the most accurate and reputable source of information on the webitron.


(This post was edited by onrockandice on Aug 2, 2011, 12:11 PM)


ensonik


Aug 2, 2011, 12:48 PM
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Re: [redonkulus] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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redonkulus wrote:
Italics mine. /facepalm

Why the facepalm? These are hikers; not climbers. It would seem somewhat reasonable that some of them would be in a sort of mild shock.


ClimbClimb


Aug 2, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Re: [ensonik] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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ensonik wrote:
Why the facepalm? These are hikers; not climbers. It would seem somewhat reasonable that some of them would be in a sort of mild shock.

Actually, it is even reasonable that a climber might be in some sort of mild shock after watching someone fall & die... I know, I know, we're all hardmen here, but I don't really see the facepalm here.


majid_sabet


Aug 2, 2011, 1:34 PM
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Re: [Stoves] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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Give a few more days and a better report may become available by park official.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Aug 3, 2011, 10:04 AM)


redonkulus


Aug 2, 2011, 1:35 PM
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Re: [ClimbClimb] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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ClimbClimb wrote:
ensonik wrote:
Why the facepalm? These are hikers; not climbers. It would seem somewhat reasonable that some of them would be in a sort of mild shock.

Actually, it is even reasonable that a climber might be in some sort of mild shock after watching someone fall & die... I know, I know, we're all hardmen here, but I don't really see the facepalm here.

I guess I don't really know the nature of the rescue. Perhaps they just had some rangers go up and coax/guide the 40 hikers down. However, if they had to heli-evacuate them from the top (which is what I pictured in my head) then I'd say that's a bit ridiculous.

If there was no rescue party, would the 40 of them have sat up there until they died from dehydration or starvation? If they were really that in shock, then yes, please rescue them. Otherwise, I can't really think of too many people I know that wouldn't be able to 1. cry, be in shock or whatever for a while, be totally freaked out and then 2. pull themselves together and walk VERY CAREFULLY back down. If you can't do that, you don't belong several miles up a steep trail. Just my $.02 though.

Basically, if you have NO survival instinct, to the point that a shocking event would leave you completely stranded without even making an attempt to get out of the situation you are in, you really shouldn't be out of your car in Yosemite or any other wild place. My facepalm was for the condition of the human race as a whole, if that is what we have come to. Make sense?


retr2327


Aug 2, 2011, 1:36 PM
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Re: [onrockandice] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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Possible, maybe. Advisable, no. It's a long way between support posts, so a free-running biner would allow too long a fall.

But I did get some psychological comfort, at least, from a nylon sling girth-hitched around the cable (IIRC), and controlled with a gloved hand. It's pretty steep and slick (worse than the last couple hundred feet of Snake Dike, for example)


redonkulus


Aug 2, 2011, 1:38 PM
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Also, I don't think I would want to climb with you if you went into shock after watching me fall and get seriously hurt, and instead of attempting a rescue, sat where you were at until someone stumbled upon us and called for the big guns. If you're gonna play in the outdoors, at least have the capacity to pull yourself together and come up with a backup plan...


ensonik


Aug 2, 2011, 2:40 PM
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redonkulus wrote:
Make sense?

Yup.

I think you just need to develop your cynicism skills a bit more. This struck me as bad journalism from the get go; they probably had a ranger go up and force everyone down; journalist called it a rescue.


chadnsc


Aug 2, 2011, 3:51 PM
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Re: [ensonik] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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ensonik wrote:
redonkulus wrote:
Make sense?

Yup.

I think you just need to develop your cynicism skills a bit more. This struck me as bad journalism from the get go; they probably had a ranger go up and force everyone down; journalist called it a rescue.

Stop with the conjecture, keep to what you know happened.


ensonik


Aug 2, 2011, 4:56 PM
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chadnsc wrote:
Stop with the conjecture, keep to what you know happened.

You and I haven't been introduced I believe. And you are?


ClimbClimb


Aug 2, 2011, 6:38 PM
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Re: [redonkulus] Half Dome Climber falls to death (reported by SF Chronicle) [In reply to]
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redonkulus wrote:
Also, I don't think I would want to climb with you if you went into shock after watching me fall and get seriously hurt,
1. I am not sure we're talking about shock.
2. I am quite sure we're not talking about "seriously hurt" and "rescue" -- there's a difference between someone dying in front of you and getting seriously hurt.

redonkulus wrote:
and instead of attempting a rescue, sat where you were at until someone stumbled upon us and called for the big guns. If you're gonna play in the outdoors, at least have the capacity to pull yourself together and come up with a backup plan...

I think you're being a bit too judgmental about this. Read some of the other threads on A&I, including first-person accounts. Read about great mountaineers and things that happened to them in extreme circumstances.


redonkulus


Aug 2, 2011, 9:05 PM
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ClimbClimb wrote:
redonkulus wrote:
Also, I don't think I would want to climb with you if you went into shock after watching me fall and get seriously hurt,
1. I am not sure we're talking about shock.
2. I am quite sure we're not talking about "seriously hurt" and "rescue" -- there's a difference between someone dying in front of you and getting seriously hurt.

redonkulus wrote:
and instead of attempting a rescue, sat where you were at until someone stumbled upon us and called for the big guns. If you're gonna play in the outdoors, at least have the capacity to pull yourself together and come up with a backup plan...

I think you're being a bit too judgmental about this. Read some of the other threads on A&I, including first-person accounts. Read about great mountaineers and things that happened to them in extreme circumstances.

You said shock, not me.
ClimbClimb wrote:
Actually, it is even reasonable that a climber might be in some sort of mild shock
If I fell 80 feet, and was laying motionless at the bottom with a lot of blood, you might very well, with good reason, think that I had died. However, I might also be alive and in very serious condition. Just because you see a fall, and see the person laying broken at the bottom doesn't necessarily mean they've died. I have to feel like witnessing a person fall 600 feet or 80 feet would have had the same effect on those hikers, which would be to be too petrified, perhaps even too far into mild shock to move.

I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at with the great mountaineers thing. Maybe an example might help? One where an experienced outdoorsman was subjected to adverse circumstances, and they simply sat there and waited to be rescued or perhaps just died from lack of motivation to rescue themselves. That might prove your point, that it would happen to anyone, and not just a whole bunch of people who sit at the TV all day, live to work, have seldom been outdoors, and have no survival instinct. You'd think Bear Grylls might teach that.

Anyway, yes, I probably am being a bit judgmental about this. I'm just grumpy because a friend of mine died today, so I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a prick.

I still stand by my facepalm though.


dugl33


Aug 2, 2011, 9:21 PM
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chadnsc wrote:
ensonik wrote:
redonkulus wrote:
Make sense?

Yup.

I think you just need to develop your cynicism skills a bit more. This struck me as bad journalism from the get go; they probably had a ranger go up and force everyone down; journalist called it a rescue.

Stop with the conjecture, keep to what you know happened.

Here you go, not much conjecture required...

http://www.friendsofyosar.org/...alfDomeFatality.html


ClimbClimb


Aug 3, 2011, 5:31 AM
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redonkulus wrote:
Anyway, yes, I probably am being a bit judgmental about this. I'm just grumpy because a friend of mine died today, so I'm sorry if I'm coming off as a prick.

I still stand by my facepalm though.

I'm sorry about your loss.
As for the topic, I think we've discussed it enough & probably agree on more things than it seems.


billl7


Aug 3, 2011, 5:53 AM
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dugl33 wrote:
... not much conjecture required...

http://www.friendsofyosar.org/...alfDomeFatality.html

Thanks for posting that. I can imagine heading down in deteriorating conditions, wondering "how close I am getting to a serious fall?" Seeing someone fall to certain death or worse and thereby getting my answer.

Once the initial impact sunk in and mentally subsided somewhat, the report indicates that the cold became an issue.

... whether to one or forty matters not except in the possibility of losing individual thinking to a group mentality of "Hey, everyone else thinks the weather is not that bad and is still heading up."

Bill L


ubu


Aug 3, 2011, 7:04 AM
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billl7 wrote:
dugl33 wrote:
... not much conjecture required...

http://www.friendsofyosar.org/...alfDomeFatality.html

Thanks for posting that. I can imagine heading down in deteriorating conditions, wondering "how close I am getting to a serious fall?" Seeing someone fall to certain death or worse and thereby getting my answer.

Once the initial impact sunk in and mentally subsided somewhat, the report indicates that the cold became an issue.

... whether to one or forty matters not except in the possibility of losing individual thinking to a group mentality of "Hey, everyone else thinks the weather is not that bad and is still heading up."

Bill L

Well said. Also it should be kept in mind that it would only take 1 or 2 people freezing up mid-route to block the full group of 41 from descending the via.


redonkulus


Aug 3, 2011, 7:06 AM
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dugl33 wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
ensonik wrote:
redonkulus wrote:
Make sense?

Yup.

I think you just need to develop your cynicism skills a bit more. This struck me as bad journalism from the get go; they probably had a ranger go up and force everyone down; journalist called it a rescue.

Stop with the conjecture, keep to what you know happened.

Here you go, not much conjecture required...

http://www.friendsofyosar.org/...alfDomeFatality.html

Thanks for the link. The bad weather definitely adds another factor to the story. I feel it's far more reasonable for them to need a rescue when they're trapped out in a storm. Sounds like YOSAR really has their shit together. Good for them.

ClimbClimb, you're probably right. Sorry for my irate-ness.


Partner cracklover


Aug 3, 2011, 8:32 AM
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redonkulus wrote:
ClimbClimb, you're probably right. Sorry for my irate-ness.

I think your ire is entirely appropriate.

I did the hike once, and there are a lot of people on that route that have no business being there. Only good luck and the fact that YOSAR is just a 911 call away keeps them alive.

The last 100 yards are a (barely) technical climb with fixed gear. In nice weather, for some of the people out there, it's a difficult challenge. They are free-soloing 5.3 A0 in a crowd of sometimes jostling people.

Fact is, I think that a lot of people think that just because plenty of other people do it, it "must be safe". Their own sense of self-preservation turns off and their herd mentality turns on. I even saw plenty of people with nothing more than a cotton t-shirt, shorts, and sneakers. No pack, no extra clothing, not even any water, despite it being a 15 mile hike.

I think it's a good thing they've started implementing a permit system. I'd hope that it would make some folks think twice about whether they're really capable, or at least put a little more thought into their planning.

My condolences to the fallen hiker and his family and friends.

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Aug 3, 2011, 8:34 AM)


erisspirit


Aug 3, 2011, 9:42 AM
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onrockandice wrote:
Is it possible to harness up and do that hike with the cables via-ferratta http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_ferrata? Seems like that might be the best way to approach that sucker. Love to hear from anyone who's done the hike.

edit: added link to via-ferratta which takes you to the most accurate and reputable source of information on the webitron.


A friend of mine did that route last year and a ranger actually recommended a harness be worn and she clip into the cables (This may be the opinion of only that ranger and not a common recommendation, I don't know). As she is a bit of a cautious one anyways, that's what she did. It worked well for her, however she also didn't fall.


davrobj


Aug 3, 2011, 9:48 AM
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Just so everyone knows, there are 2 accidents being discussed in this thread: a man that died in 2009 (when the rescue of other hikers occurred), and a woman that died this week.

Both individuals happened to be from San Ramon, California.


Partner cracklover


Aug 3, 2011, 10:42 AM
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davrobj wrote:
Just so everyone knows, there are 2 accidents being discussed in this thread: a man that died in 2009 (when the rescue of other hikers occurred), and a woman that died this week.

Both individuals happened to be from San Ramon, California.

Thanks for the clarification. I, for one, was conflating the two incidents.

GO

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