Work on your core is probably some of the weakest advice I have ever heard. When I sport climb, I like the routes to be really steep, but my core is never my point of failure. However, I can't even complete a single set of any pilates exercise or do more than a few reps on a captains chair. By all measurements, my "core" is fairly weak and has extremely poor endurance, but my feet never cut, even on really steep routes. Climbing strength is far too nebulous to be improved by "core" exercises.

Was I talking to you?

Work on your core is probably some of the weakest advice I have ever heard. When I sport climb, I like the routes to be really steep, but my core is never my point of failure. However, I can't even complete a single set of any pilates exercise or do more than a few reps on a captains chair. By all measurements, my "core" is fairly weak and has extremely poor endurance, but my feet never cut, even on really steep routes. Climbing strength is far too nebulous to be improved by "core" exercises.

No, but this is a public forum, and it is not like I was attacking you or anything.

Sorry if I came off as harsh or offended (I'm not). It's just that you belittled my advice TO THE OP by saying that YOU don't have core problems. As someone who prefers steep climbs, I wouldn't expect you to have core issues.

And my comment was not based on the avatar at all - that's just something I noticed when I started my post, and I thought it was funny if not totally accurate - but an observation that comes from teaching literally hundreds of first-time climbers: weak climbers thrutch and stab at holds.

I didn't mean to say I don't have core problems. I meant to say that I have an extremely weak core, at least in terms of core exercises, and that doesn't manifest itself in my climbing in any noticeable way.

That's what you think.

How do you know that if your core were stronger, you wouldn't use better technique due to an increased ability to manipulate your center of gravity? How do you know that you wouldn't be able to climb harder? Maybe you're succeeding right now because of other strengths of yours, and your core is a weakness, that, if addressed, would result in considerable improvement.

I did notice that you posted "at least in terms of core exercises," so if the core movements in climbing in fact have little in common with the core exercises you are referring to, I would agree that they may do little to improve your climbing. Perhaps you use your core in both climbing and in the exercises, but in far different ways. This is not very likely with an exercise like leg raises, however. This particular movement involves pulling your legs up with your core in exactly the same way that you do on roofs and steep climbing, so there has to be carry over. However, your assumption may be true for other core (abs/oblique/lower back) exercises that are not so similar to movements in climbing.

I am new to this site but not to climbing. I was wondering the best way to achieve smoothness in my moves. I have seen myself climb and notice all my moves tend to look forced, like I am throwing to each hold and using strength not finesse to make my moves. It becomes very obvious when climbing with people who look more like they flow up the route rather than throw to each hold.

So any advice, things to practice, etc.?

To be honest, I really don't know that, but I do know that in terms of strength, I am much weaker than my peers who climb at a similar level. Maybe if I had a stronger core, my technique would be better, and I would climb harder. I just take issue with beginners being told to "work their core" like it is the biggest thing holding them back.

I just take issue with beginners being told to "work their core" like it is the biggest thing holding them back.

All right, I tried the hips close thing and I won't change my mind. It is the case that you will spend a lot of time with your hips close to the wall if you have good technique. Its just that such a phenomenon is a consequence of good technique, not a cause.

Swivelling your hips, keeping the line of force parallel to the line of motion, finding the best body position for a hold, all of these will tend to keep your hips close in some situations, but they all work in all situations, whereas simply keeping your hips close can be downright counter-productive sometimes.

Exactly. Beginning and intermediate climbers don't need stronger core muscles any more than they need giant biceps.

It took me a LONG time to discover on my own what body tension really was and how to use it climbing. Being able to do strenuous gym "core" exercises wouldn't have taught me how to accomplish this any more than being really good at pull ups teaches you how to climb 5.12.

+2. Using body tension is a skill; it's a matter of coordination, not strength.

Well, provided you're in reasonably good shape to begin with, it isn't really necessary to do core specific exercises to improve as a climber, as it tends to develop on its own. However, as has been said, you do need to consciously develop that muscle coordination.

I think i've been looking at it wrong. You and I have some pretty divergent ideas about training. I've never found much use in exercises that didn't directly relate to my climbing, and if there was some exaggeration to any movement, it could be toned down as time went on. The exercises i've taught never included vague advice like "keep your hips close" because I could get the students to learn the ideas that lead to that (see above) via specific movement advice.

However, if your method gets the same results, great!

Long ass endurance drills are for people who only want to climb long ass endurance routes, otherwise they are pretty much worthless. If you want to be smooth, pick a route about a full number grade above your current redpoint that you can do some of the moves on. Keep working it. By the time you get it, you will be smoother than before. And seriously, for the good smooth moves you gotta eat prunes.

Long ass endurance drills are for people who only want to climb long ass endurance routes, otherwise they are pretty much worthless.

Nice analogy though it makes no sense, like so many of your spews. I am not a plane, and you would be junked by now because age if you were. Hey Home boy, better check your posse' I do understand you climb like shit, but if you are working something that much harder, it will force you to either improve or quit, your long ass endurance drills just teach old men to think too highly of themselves. I personally have been climbing too much endurance lately and trust me I am right. I probably couldn't pull A V10 now if my life depended on it, I am too weak from endurance. Endurance has negative side effects as well, like becoming a sissy and complacently climbing 5.12 the rest of your life.

Nice analogy though it makes no sense, like so many of your spews. I am not a plane, and you would be junked by now because age if you were. Hey Home boy, better check your posse' I do understand you climb like shit, but if you are working something that much harder, it will force you to either improve or quit, your long ass endurance drills just teach old men to think too highly of themselves. I personally have been climbing too much endurance lately and trust me I am right. I probably couldn't pull A V10 now if my life depended on it, I am too weak from endurance. Endurance has negative side effects as well, like becoming a sissy and complacently climbing 5.12 the rest of your life.