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Partner pianomahnn


Nov 18, 2001, 7:42 PM
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What I learned from my first climbing competition...
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This weekend was my first real climbing competition. It was located at Upper Limits, which is located in Bloomington, IL.

Anyways, I did exceptionally well. I ended up getting 3rd place in the Men's Advanced. (History of me...I've been climbing for about 8 months). I was way impressed with myself.

I learned that I need to learn to clip better. I don't lead, almost ever. And the finals route was an onsite lead. Where I fell, I wasted Sooooooooooooo much time because I coldn't make the clip. I hate to speculate, but had I not been a dummy head and been incapable of clipping ( I am boulderer) , I could've climbed higher.

So, it was kewl. And fun. And a good time. Comps are neato.


vishnuepie


Nov 18, 2001, 8:21 PM
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Hey piano,
Im from champaign IL, and am thinking about goin to future upper limits comps. What would u say is a good level to climb at to compete in the men's advanced?


addiroids


Nov 18, 2001, 9:17 PM
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Good job pianomahn. Gee, you have been climbing for 8 months, you don't lead, you only boulder, and you know soooo much about aid climbing. Damn, I'm impressed with yourself too.

It reminds me when I was in Tuolumne and was 100 from the belay on a blank 5.6 slab/chimney, placed a tipped out #4 (wait, you don't know what that is)...or when I was jugging a free hanging line at 11pm 30 feet from the wall...or...I guess bouldering doesn't afford you those opportunities does it??

Good job in the indoor climbing comp though. Isn't that what climbing is all about anyways??

TRADitionally yours,

Addiroids


eclarke98


Nov 18, 2001, 9:22 PM
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Congrats on the high finish Pianomahnn!


Partner pianomahnn


Nov 18, 2001, 9:56 PM
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Yea for addiroids!!!



[ This Message was edited by: pianomahnn on 2001-11-18 22:02 ]


munckee


Nov 19, 2001, 1:20 PM
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Hey piano, congrats!! I'm thinking about entering the upper limits st. louis comp in january. Was it run well? Everyone in good spirits? I have had mixed experiences at the gym here. Sometimes you run into people that are really cool; other times you see people who are way too full of themselves.

[ This Message was edited by: munckee on 2001-11-19 13:22 ]


Partner pianomahnn


Nov 20, 2001, 3:29 PM
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I'm in a picture on www.rockcomps.com

http://www.rockcomps.com/states/wisconsin/events/abs2/boulders11.10.01.htm

http://www.rockcomps.com/states/wisconsin/pictures/boulders111001/2.jpg

I took 7th in Men's Mutant division....not bad for a first bouldering comp.

I'm doing another one this Saturday at Climb On in Homewood, IL. I hope I kick some ass.


hardcoredana


Nov 21, 2001, 8:05 AM
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Ooooooooo, Addiroids, we are so impressed that you can belittle someone else. You are such a big man.

Please, try harder to respect other climbers. And if you can't do that, at least keep your comments in the proper forum. Last time I looked, this one was called, "Competition Climbing" not "Trad Climbing".

Keep your, "trad is best" mentality in the appropriate forum. Or better yet, why don't you continue to debate whether trad climbers are god's gift to the world in the "Code of Ethics" topic?


Partner pianomahnn


Nov 21, 2001, 12:42 PM
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What she said.


addiroids


Nov 27, 2001, 11:07 PM
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Just checking back.

Well yes, that's great Pianoman. Good work in the comp. I just don't want you to get too big for your britches bro.

As for the rest of the dudes/dudettes who reminded me to keep to my own forums, I would like to point out that our own Pianoman has "belittled" Passthepitonspete and talked sh!t about aid climbing and such, and knows nothing about it. I just have a problem with people who are hypocritical. And with people who wear spandex.

TRADitionally yours,

Addiroids

P.S. I won first overall 2 years in a row in a comp at a local gym, so I do know something about competition climbing. I know that's not what climbing is about and serves to "bastardize" the true essense of climbing.


wallhammer


Nov 27, 2001, 11:37 PM
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you can learn how to win comp climbs out of a book! seriously just a friendly jab and congratulations on your success. (just jealous cause ive been climbing awhile, and i cant even do 4th class at the gym.


passthepitonspete


Nov 27, 2001, 11:50 PM
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The book doesn't exist! It's a fake!


Partner pianomahnn


Nov 28, 2001, 7:32 AM
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Add, I never talked s--- about aid climbing. I think it's insane shit, but that's about all. As for talking s--- towards Pete, I only did it in return. He started it.

I know damn well that gym climbing isn't like outdoor climbing, thanks for pointing out the freaking obvious. Now stop being a hard-ass and respect people.


hardcoredana


Nov 28, 2001, 12:05 PM
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I would just like to clarify my position, addiroids. I didn't tell you to stay out of this forum, I told you to keep your "trad is best" attitude out of this forum. I also didn't even remotely suggest that you are unqualified to participate in the competition forum. If you have something to add to the conversation, and you can maintain a respectful attitude (unlike the immensely condescending tone you used in your first post), then I have no problem with that. I'm just sick to death of hearing from trad climbers that sport climbers are ruining the "spirit" of the sport. It shows a need to belittle other people that really upsets me. Many people sport climb because they don't have the money, means, or opportunity to do otherwise. Some people sport climb because it seems safer than trad climbing, and requires less technical expertise. Some sport climbers, like myself, are just waiting for the day when they can buy their own trad rack and head out to the Gunks. You can be assured that when I do that, though, that I will not forget my roots. We all have our different motivations, our different fears, and our different strengths. Let's not forget that.

Peace
Dana

[ This Message was edited by: hardcoredana on 2001-11-28 13:26 ]


addiroids


Nov 28, 2001, 12:42 PM
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Word peepes. I understand.

However Dana wrote:

"Some people sport climb because it is safer than trad climbing, and requires less technical expertise."

I completely disagree with that. First, how do you know sport climbing is safer?? Did you place the bolts? Do you even know who did? Do you know their abilities in bolting? NO!! If you know how to place a piece of gear, and do so, you have placed it, you can inspect it, and you can KNOW that it is good.

Second, you still need a lot of technical expertise to sport climb safely. How many accidentes have you seen from gym gumbies thinking sport climbing is just like gym climbing and get themselves killed. How many sport climbers do you see wearing a helmet?!?! Less than 5% I'm sure. The whole attitude that sport climbing is safer than trad climbing is a myth. What do you trust your life to: a 9.8mm or beefy 11mm rope?

Yes, sport climbing requires less money, but you still have to know a lot. I guarentee most sport climbers don't know how, or have the equipment available to lock off the belay with a load releasable knot, transfer the weight to the anchor, and safely ascend to an injured climber who fell upside down because the rope was behind her leg and hit her head that didn't have a helmet on, and the rope is tangled around his mangled body so that you can't lower him/her.

Now competition climbing is very safe on the other hand. You don't even have to know how to clip the bolts correctly, and you can enter a comp and be leading clipping bolts. That's great.

TRADitionally yours,

Addiroids


passthepitonspete


Nov 28, 2001, 12:50 PM
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Hey, that's great to hear!

You sport climbers who want to start trad climbing at places like the Gunks do NOT have to spend a lot of money to do so! You already have most everything you already need.

Go by this: A set of Rocks curved stoppers sizes #1 - 8. Double up on sizes that are useful in your area. Buy yourself some hexes, yes - HEXES!. You need to learn how to place passive gear before you start friggin' around with cams. The hexes I would recommend would be #6, #8 and #9. Maybe a big honkin' #10, cuz damn! does it ever feel good when you get that puppy placed! It'll hold a train!

You already have the rope, draws, spare crabs, harness. Buy some standard shoulder length slings. Avoid those tight little no-twist gym draws - you need an extra degree of freedom that a regular sling provides. If you can't afford sewn slings (handy cuz you can triple up) then TIE them yourself! Make lots because you are about to learn about the phenomenon of rope drag.

Find yourself a mentor so you don't die. Dying is not cool, and nobody knows this any more than one who has nearly died more often than he should ever admit in print.

Now here's the key - go to the Gunks and start leading EASY ROUTES. Start working the grades, which may be a novel concept to gym rats c-- sport climbers who find they can go lead a 5.10 sport route.
You may not understand why you should start leading easy routes until such time as you find yourself strung out high above your last piece of pro, which wasn't very good anyway, on pumping arms in an impossible situation where you know you are going to fall, and you get that sick feeling of fear in your stomach where the possibility if not certainty of a very painful and ignominious death crosses your mind and you will be embarrassed that the climbing ranger tells your mother you died on a 5.7 and your sport climbing friends will never realize how incredibly much harder leading trad on-sight is than sport climbing.
The Gunks is the ideal area for beginning climbers. I do not believe there is a better place for beginners to learn trad in the whole fricking world than the Gunks! The Gunks is known worldwide as having CLASSIC ROUTES in every grade from 5.0 on up!

It is OK to do your first trad lead on a 5.0 or 5.2! Not only is it OK but it is also smart because you are less likely, but not guaranteed, to die as a result of your own stupidity and inexperience. I believe this to be a good thing!

If you're as fortunate as I was when I started, your mentor will solo up beside you checking your gear placements as you lead.

Right then, troops - rah! rah! rah!

Get out to the Gunks and start leading!

I have always maintained and continue to maintain that it is better to lead a 5.3 than it is to toprope a 5.10 or lead a sport route.
If you have the necessary knack, talent, tenacity, boldness, smarts, strength, commitment, balls (or ovaries), fear, competitiveness, passion, mentor, heart, mentality, fitness, and desire, and you are the kind of person who is sometimes too stupid to quit when others would have given up long before, then it is possible that you may have the necessary traits to become a beginner trad climber.


wigglestick


Nov 28, 2001, 12:51 PM
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Dana, I will agree with you that sometimes the aggression towards some people on this site is a little uncalled for. But you must be able to at least understand it if not agree with it.
You said it yourself that some people sport climb because they cannot afford to do anything else and don't have the opportunity to do anything else because of where they live. Now I have not met very many wealthy aid climbers in my time. Take PTPP for example. He has surely made numerous sacrifices to follow his love of climbing. Both personal and financial. I am sure that he has easily invested over 20 grand in equipment and that is not counting the trip expenses, time off from work etc.. We are all aware of his personal sacrifices that he made (and continues to make).
It is all about priorities. If you are not willing to sacrifice for this sport as much as somebody else than you better not demand to get the same respect. And the opportunity arguement is bunk as well. How many people have packed up there car in the midwest and travelled to the valley to live out their big wall dreams? Many, many have.
You can pack it all up and move to yosemite. You just choose not to.

I don't mean to pick on pianomahn because I have no problem with him at all. But in reality, his 1 year or so of climbing in the midwest makes him the rookie cop on the force yet he demands the respect of the seasoned detectives. That is not going to happen easily. Just because he is strong as an ox and can climb in the gym well is not an instant invitation to join the club. You have to pay your dues and that comes from time and personal sacrifice.
Many people start climbing in a gym but not that many realize that it is not the end of it all. It is only the beginning. Climbing is much more than a sport. And that is why the entire concept of sport climbing causes some heart troubles.


passthepitonspete


Nov 28, 2001, 1:02 PM
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I agree with Adds - it is a myth that sport climbing is safer than trad climbing. Any time a bolt is placed it will fail sooner of later.

Many sport climbers come from the gym and don't know what it takes to stay alive.

It is very true that you can be a completely incompetent gym gumby who can't even properly clip a bolt in a freaking GYM and still live to tell the tale while sport climbing.

Then again, you may not.

I highly recommend that incompetent gym gumbies who can't even properly clip a bolt in a freaking GYM learn to do so before attempting to sport climb outdoors, let alone trad climb.

You do not find many of These Kinds of People climbing trad routes because of something we Chartered Life Underwriters call anti-selection. This means that incompetent gym gumbies who can't even properly clip a bolt in a freaking GYM are selected against in a controlled environment, this being the cliff.
Anti-selection means that This Type of Person usually ends up dead and is therefore seldom seen at the cliff, except maybe for the first and only time.


Partner pianomahnn


Nov 28, 2001, 1:21 PM
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Anyone want to know why I can't trad? NO FREAKING MONEY!!! Pete, it's a little more expensive than you make it out to be. I have VERY little expendable income, and that goes mostly towards gas for my commute to and from college.

I just thought of this now; sport climbing is more closely related to soloing routes. Why? You don't have to stop and find somewhere to place pro, you can just whip out a biner, clip it in, and go. Much less down time, much less gear on the body, more like solo.

Although, bouldering is the only REAL close substitute for soloing, and bouldering kicks ass.



hardcoredana


Nov 28, 2001, 1:43 PM
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Whoa. Ummm. You'll all be happy to know that I edited my post to say something like "sport climbing seems safer than trad climbing . . ." And you'll be happy to know that I did it before I read any of the responses that you posted. I meant to put "seems" in there in the first place, but forgot it. Please, forgive me.

And I stand by the statement that sport climbing requires less technical expertise. I never for a moment implied that sport climbing requires *no* technical expertise, and I am fully aware of how to sport climb outside safely.

I thank you all for your wonderful advice on staying safe, both when sport climbing and when learning how to trad climb. The advice you gave is very helpful, and I am sure will come in handy when I get myself out of the monstrous amount of debt that I am in due to graduate school, and I can purchase some passive gear and active gear. THat's what makes this site so great, the fact that everyone is so willing to help eachother out. Garsh, I love you guys.


talons05


Nov 28, 2001, 2:31 PM
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Wow. Ok, first, congratulations piano on your finish. It's always something to be proud of to place that high. Second, Addiroids, dude, what is your problem? Enough has been said about your rudeness I think. Finally, my opinion on all of this: I love trad climbing. BUT I also enjoy sport climbing because it is easier. I can climb much harder grades, because I just "clip'n'go" without having to spend time making good placements (like in trad). So, since I do both types of climbing, I don't go around saying that one is better than the other. They are just different. So I guess that's all I have to say about that.

AW


talons05


Nov 28, 2001, 3:58 PM
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Be nice, everyone, please, or we will put you in time out...

Lots of good info here though, once you sort through all the BS and egoes.

AW


rlkelley


Nov 28, 2001, 4:23 PM
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abcd


passthepitonspete


Nov 28, 2001, 6:25 PM
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When climbing competitions first began, there used to be on cliff climbing competitions in Arco, Italy. I do not know if these were trad routes or sport routes, but I do know that the routes were chiselled and chopped to sh*t for the purposes of competition.

This is amazing to me and something I personally would have been more likely to expect from their neighbours to the west.

For instance, if you drive through the Italian Alps, the retaining walls along the side of the highways are very craftsmanlike in their engineering with many of the blocks fitting together and holding without benefit of mortar. It is obvious that true masters and not mere practitioners take great pride in their work in Italy.

Across the col and past the waving border guard who never bothers to stop you, you will find what I call French efficiency with respect to retaining walls. This is where French retaining wall builders take liquid concrete and spray it against the mountain under pressure to create that lovely wall of white which always seemed to add to my appreciation of the beauty and majesty of the mountains. I believe this type of retaining wall, however, to be the work of mere practitioners.

I have not been to the cliff at Arco to inspect it, but if the people who chiselled and chopped to sh*t the cliffs there for the purpose of a climbing competition have applied the same level of craftsmanship to their chiselling and chopping as they do to their retaining walls, then I will bet you a #3 Camalot placement to a #1 head placement that those chisellers and choppers are true masters of their craft.


wigglestick


Nov 29, 2001, 7:49 AM
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And I seem to remember that at these outdoor competitions, things would be going along just fine until a hold broke and then the comp was over because the route had been changed. at least at indoor walls the exact same route can be climbed by each person. Although all these recent speed ascents up the Nose sure seem like a competition to me.

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