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westhegimp
Aug 13, 2011, 2:14 AM
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Sorry if this has been discussed before.
I have just recently been able to climb pain free(tendinitis)! So I am pretty motivated to train up and progress my climbing level.
Please tell me where to start my pyramid.
Some info.
I am 47, so I find that two to three days is all I can handle.
I have been climbing consistently just at a lower level. But I recently on sighted a Holcomb 12b, 11d and countless 10s. Clean TR of Urban Struggle @ the Bu. TR RP of Viscious @ Stoney. But not much else in the 11 to 12 range due to my past injury. Huge amounts of 10s done though.
My goal is .13 eventually.
What do you think? Where would you start?
Thanks
Wes
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rtwilli4
Aug 13, 2011, 4:11 PM
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Someone who has Horst's book right in front of them may be able to give you a more specific answer, but if you're goal is a 13a, you should do 2 or 3 12d's, 4-5 12c's, 6-7 12b's, 8-9 12a's, and so on. You can expand and contract each letter grade as appropriate.
It sounds like 12b is not your consistent on-sight level, so we'll call it 12a. Red-pointing a 13a is a good goal. Start in the mid-11's.
You can work on the entire pyramid. Work harder routes at the same time that you are filling out the base of your pyramid, but don't over do it and don't try to red-point until you are ready. When working routes toward the top of your pyramid, focus on learning the details rather than trying to link long sequences. This will allow you to learn the routes you want to send w/o getting in over your head. Be patient and rest A LOT, especially if you are injury prone.
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westhegimp
Aug 14, 2011, 5:56 AM
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4-11c
2-11d
1-12a
1-12b
Sounds good. Thanks rtwilli4.
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rtwilli4
Aug 14, 2011, 7:12 AM
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westhegimp wrote: 4-11c 2-11d 1-12a 1-12b Sounds good. Thanks rtwilli4.
Maybe I misunderstood, but if you've already on-sighted one 12b, I'm not sure why exactly you'd want to put that at the top of your pyramid? I thought that you wanted to red-point a 13?
The routes you listed could be seen as a single day of climbing for someone who climbs your grade, except you'd spread the 11c'd and 11d's out over 10d-11d
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on Aug 14, 2011, 7:16 AM)
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westhegimp
Aug 14, 2011, 2:55 PM
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"It sounds like 12b is not your consistent on-sight level, so we'll call it 12a. Red-pointing a 13a is a good goal. Start in the mid-11's."
So what I am trying to do is fill in the new
pyramid to have two 12b's.(from your suggestion)
4-11c
2-11d
1-12a
1-12b
Then 4-11d, 2-12a, 1-12b,1-12c will get me a 12c. Then I will so this again for two 12c's. And so on up the line. Is this not correct?
The lack of time to climb is the problem. If I make a pyramid with 13a at the top and carry it down to 32 11d's! who has the time to do 64 11c's? This is why I posted up. The higher up the Pyramid the less I have to do. :)
Also I wanted to know how OS routes effect where on the RP pyramid I should start.
See with all my injuries, I lowered my level of climbing difficulty. So I haven't fallen off a route for a bit. Maybe I should just try to figure out where my RP level is right now?
Thanks for your time
Wes
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spikeddem
Aug 14, 2011, 4:08 PM
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westhegimp wrote: Also I wanted to know how OS routes effect where on the RP pyramid I should start.
The SCC begins its pyramid one letter grade above the current on-sight level. However, this is done with the "typical" climber in mind. Here, "typical" climber means one full number grade difference between consistent OS and hardest RP.
The pyramid in SCC is actually a triangle. It is not exponential in growth. The layers go 1-2-4-8 (and then stick at eight below the bottom grade). It is done with the assumption in mind that you'll randomly (say, for warm-ups) climb routes of the grades below your bottom layer. However, you do not need to seek out new routes that are four letter grades less than your hardest RP.
In reply to: Maybe I should just try to figure out where my RP level is right now?
Yes, it would be helpful for you to know what grade takes about a dozen or so attempts.
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westhegimp
Aug 14, 2011, 5:15 PM
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Spike thanks
"The pyramid in SCC is actually a triangle. It is not exponential in growth. The layers go 1-2-4-8 (and then stick at eight below the bottom grade)."
Haha. I must have read this a hundred times and not understood that it's just eight from wherever on down. So that helps.
"The SCC begins its pyramid one letter grade above the current on-sight level."
By that do you mean, the base? ex. os level is 12a so 8-12b, 4-12c, 2-12d, 1-13a.
""Maybe I should just try to figure out where my RP level is right now?"
"Yes, it would be helpful for you to know what grade takes about a dozen or so attempts. ""
If you were me where would you start? I os 2-11b's and an 11c @ Riv. Quarry yesterday too. :) Might have done more but we ran out of shade.
Again thanks for your time and consideration.
Wes
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superchuffer
Aug 14, 2011, 5:23 PM
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i.m 40 and i did a 13b without having done 13a, only one 12d, and only a few at 12c. if you can do all the moves, train specifically for it and do it.
the pyramid is a good idea for building mileage so you don't get injured, but if you feel like you can do 13, just do it.
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ceebo
Aug 14, 2011, 6:27 PM
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westhegimp wrote: Sorry if this has been discussed before. I have just recently been able to climb pain free(tendinitis)! So I am pretty motivated to train up and progress my climbing level. Please tell me where to start my pyramid. Some info. I am 47, so I find that two to three days is all I can handle. I have been climbing consistently just at a lower level. But I recently on sighted a Holcomb 12b, 11d and countless 10s. Clean TR of Urban Struggle @ the Bu. TR RP of Viscious @ Stoney. But not much else in the 11 to 12 range due to my past injury. Huge amounts of 10s done though. My goal is .13 eventually. What do you think? Where would you start? Thanks Wes
Technique wise a .13a is well within your ability. Strength wise maybe not.. so the obvius options would be to either project a 13.a, campus, use a hangboard or project some short term high 12's in the run up to .13s. Your well past any substantial gains from prymids imo.
Projecting is the best way to get their imo, ''eventually'' is only a few month to a year down the line.. thats a few blinks away.
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serpico
Aug 14, 2011, 6:52 PM
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ceebo wrote: Technique wise a .13a is well within your ability.
How can you say that without ever having seen him climb?
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ceebo
Aug 14, 2011, 7:54 PM
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serpico wrote: ceebo wrote: Technique wise a .13a is well within your ability. How can you say that without ever having seen him climb?
So what should he do, follow the rainbow and find a magical pot of .13 moves at the end?. Since we have established mid to late .12 climbing has no technique pass over to .13 i see no other option.
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westhegimp
Aug 14, 2011, 8:38 PM
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Super, good job on your successes.
superchuffer wrote: the pyramid is a good idea for building mileage so you don't get injured
This is the rub. Every time I get trained up I eventually get injured. I think adding to the base might help in my case.
ceebo wrote: Technique wise a .13a is well within your ability. Strength wise maybe not.. so the obvius options would be to either project a 13.a, campus, use a hangboard or project some short term high 12's in the run up to .13s. Your well past any substantial gains from prymids imo. Projecting is the best way to get their imo, ''eventually'' is only a few month to a year down the line.. thats a few blinks away.
Thanks. This is how I always think, lol. I usually get injured after a short period of success though. Thus the pyramid building.
serpico wrote: How can you say that without ever having seen him climb?
Great point. :)
Thanks everyone for your time and good advice. I will check back here with my progress, if any. Ha!
Wes
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damienclimber
Aug 14, 2011, 9:18 PM
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Egypt
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westhegimp
Aug 14, 2011, 10:08 PM
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damienclimber wrote: Egypt
Ha! Too hot though.
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spikeddem
Aug 15, 2011, 2:46 AM
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westhegimp wrote: Spike thanks "The pyramid in SCC is actually a triangle. It is not exponential in growth. The layers go 1-2-4-8 (and then stick at eight below the bottom grade)." Haha. I must have read this a hundred times and not understood that it's just eight from wherever on down. So that helps.
Eric Horst's How To Climb 5.12 uses a pyramid graphic, so maybe that's what had you thinking that way. Also, this is just my interpretation of The SCC...but I think it's correct.
In reply to: "The SCC begins its pyramid one letter grade above the current on-sight level." By that do you mean, the base? ex. os level is 12a so 8-12b, 4-12c, 2-12d, 1-13a.
Yep! This pyramid is a recipe to moving to the next level with confidence and authority. You won't look/feel like you're flailing, and your hard redpoints will be quick! That said, if you are inspired by a certain route that is a bit harder, then go for it! (If you're still putting together your pyramid though, try not to let it get in the way too much.)
In reply to: ""Maybe I should just try to figure out where my RP level is right now?" "Yes, it would be helpful for you to know what grade takes about a dozen or so attempts. "" If you were me where would you start? I os 2-11b's and an 11c @ Riv. Quarry yesterday too. :) Might have done more but we ran out of shade.
I say hop on an 11d or two. If you OS them, that'll confirm your 11c OS consistency (and your 11d consistency). If you don't OS them, use them for your pyramid, and check out another 11c.
In reply to: Again thanks for your time and consideration. Wes
You're welcome.
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