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squierbypetzl
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Aug 15, 2011, 1:44 PM
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One for the math whizzes: Grahams number and Hollywoods bs
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Ok, so it's an amount so ridiculously great that the human brain can't come close to conceiving it, there's not enough space in the known universe to even write it down, but we can express it (or the general idea of it) in a formula. Is that about right?
Here's what's bugging me: I can't remember which movie it's from, but that Keanu Reaves fellow is an alien sent to Earth to establish contact. We, being human, shoot him almost on sight for no real reason, and his robot starts tearing up the place. He survives the wounds and, fast forward, the cute female lead takes him to Prof. Nobel Laureate's house to restore his faith in humanity. While there, he hears a violin/klavier piece by Bach (apparently for the 1st time, pretty glaring recon oversight), and comments on how beautiful it is. He then procedes to resolve some nasty looking sums the Prof. had been racking his brain over.
Now, music is math. So, this being with an intelligence great enough to understand and resolve an equation that one of humanities greatest living minds simply cannot, how can this being possibly be impressed by Bach? If our future alien overlords minds can handle that kind of abstraction and processing, wouldn't even our greatest musical masterpieces seem elemental at best?
Could we be the 3 chord punk band of the Universe?
(This post was edited by squierbypetzl on Aug 15, 2011, 1:54 PM)
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petsfed
Aug 15, 2011, 2:46 PM
Post #2 of 11
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That was "The Day The Earth Stood Still".
As for music, I think you're making some assumptions about art that aren't entirely justified. Mostly when you say that music is math, as if that was all there was to it. Certainly, there is a sort of numerical schema to the whole thing, but for the same reason, language is math. The statement 1=1 is no less profound nor compelling for its simplicity. In any case, the language itself is meaningless until you give it something to say. The math organizes the sounds or symbols into a decipherable structure, but the structure alone is not sufficient for the art .
And any advanced culture should be familiar with the from-the-mouths-of-babes phenomenon, and not discredit it. Our art is formed by our experiences, so it should be expected that our culture will have very different art from another alien culture.
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squierbypetzl
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Aug 15, 2011, 8:31 PM
Post #4 of 11
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Who says they wouldn't? (or they don't?, according to some).
It's what people would expect higher intelligences to appreciate. Frankly I'd be freaked out if our first extraterrestrial contact were aliens who enjoyed blasting GG Allin from their spaceships.
NSFW, likely very explicit and offensive lyrics, guy was completely insane, just posting as a point of reference.
http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related
(This post was edited by squierbypetzl on Aug 15, 2011, 8:34 PM)
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Player
Aug 15, 2011, 8:43 PM
Post #5 of 11
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Music is subjective. Look at the math for the different musics of the world. Compare Indian music to Western music. Unlike math based around physics (and many other sciences), the rules dont change. Math for music is alive though, it evolves over time and differs with each society.
Check out this for some music maths:
https://sites.google.com/...visualizingahit/home
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squierbypetzl
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Aug 15, 2011, 10:14 PM
Post #7 of 11
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Dude, wtf? Not cool. I get that it's scummunity but fer heavens sakes man.
Bach is good but I don't consider him the pinnacle of western music much less all art. And conversely, I don't see why you would suppose race is a predominant factor in that choice. What, rich, well heeled black people can't love Bach? Or was it just to fit the rhyme?
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Toast_in_the_Machine
Aug 16, 2011, 6:32 AM
Post #8 of 11
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squierbypetzl wrote: Dude, wtf? Not cool. I get that it's scummunity but fer heavens sakes man. Bach is good but I don't consider him the pinnacle of western music much less all art. And conversely, I don't see why you would suppose race is a predominant factor in that choice. What, rich, well heeled black people can't love Bach? Or was it just to fit the rhyme?
In hollywood movies, the rich black dude listens to bach as does the poor, but learned old white man. Hollywood cliches do have a basis in reality. While I was driving thru wyoming a few years back I had my offbeat grove going on. The Uzbeki pop music I had on synched with the landscape. Then I stopped for gas and was brought back to the land of Foreigner. Ah the cliche is true.
Hollywood uses those obvious touch points (sophisticated man likes classical music) because they simplify the story. They also perpetuate stereotypes and biases. Think of how much richer the same story would have been if the alien was wandering thru rural nebraska and caught the sound of the local radio station playing 80's hits at the gas station (this is true -I've been there recently) and after hearing Milli changed his mind and realized earth has value.
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squierbypetzl
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Aug 16, 2011, 1:06 PM
Post #9 of 11
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Toast_in_the_Machine wrote: Hollywood uses those obvious touch points (sophisticated man likes classical music) because they simplify the story.
Sure, but that's classism, not racism. If the poor, uneducated white man and the rich black man both spoke in a hyperlect accent and listened to 18th century baroque composers, while the poor black man spoke with a drawl and listened to ghetto rap, that would be racism. But I digress.
All clichés have a basis in reality, they just grossly misinterpret that reality.
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Gmburns2000
Aug 17, 2011, 8:06 AM
Post #10 of 11
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Art requires context. If the alien didn't know anything about the culture that created it then the alien wouldn't understand it beyond the math. The math only provides the structure. To appreciate art, one must identify with it in some way.
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xmesox
Administrator
Aug 18, 2011, 6:46 AM
Post #11 of 11
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Hey now, GG Allin may have been a complete nutter, but feces throwing aside- his music was pretty good. 
I hattteee peeeeeoppple, they mean nooothing to meeee. 
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