I'll piss on your face if you really want.

Your idea of training smooth moves is to climb at limit?. Do you understand that he may still climb like shit, but just get stronger?. As in.. the plane is shaped like a brick.. don't fly so well... instead of taking it to the wind tunnel for some smooth aero dynamics, lets just give it 2 extra engines?. Fail logic is fail ''home boy''.

And if the stated goal is to simply learn how to drive? I said "learn how to drive", not "win races".

Let me be clear: if you're consistently climbing 5.12a and you start projecting a 5.13b, by the time you finally send you will have progressed as a climber, and will definitely be a smoother climber in the 12s.

But if you're climbing 5.10a and start projecting 5.12a (the gap is pretty similar in terms of doability of moves), you will have gotten stronger, but no better. You'll almost certainly be no smoother on 10s.

and what evidence leads you to believe a climber pushing 5.10 is any different from a climber pushing 5.13. Both struggle, both suck at their own levels, why is the grade of 5.13 so significant?

Do you understand the differance in moves required to climb easier routes where holds are in abundence?. their is a clear transition stage (at least to me) that starts in the very late .11 and defo in the .12's where mvoes have less and less ways of being completed, or ''bypassed'' as i call it.

People on easier climbing for example.. may not know how to do a paticular move (say a high step) but because they have a jug hand hold.. off they go with a nice big smear. What has that taught them for a .12 high step where their hand hold is a negitive micro completely eliminating a smear?. Certainly did not teach them to lay off.. for added foot reach. If you even know what such a move is....

What was this thread about? Smooth moves. I believe that working projects will make you way smoother in your muscle movements technical execution, and mental processing than any other advice out there.

Which is weird, because your advice is about the worst I've heard on this subject. It's exactly the opposite of the truth. If you want to improve your movement skills, then you are best off doing your initial practice on terrain that is way below your limit. Then, as you begin to ingrain the new skills, gradually practice them on increasingly difficult routes.

Jay

That might work for beginners, but if you don't want to peak-out at 5.12, you are gonna need to suffer a little more, physically and mentally.

peace

That might work for beginners, but if you don't want to peak-out at 5.12, you are gonna need to suffer a little more, physically and mentally.

peace

I am new to this site but not to climbing. I was wondering the best way to achieve smoothness in my moves. I have seen myself climb and notice all my moves tend to look forced, like I am throwing to each hold and using strength not finesse to make my moves. It becomes very obvious when climbing with people who look more like they flow up the route rather than throw to each hold.

So any advice, things to practice, etc.?

No I don't. I didn't notice such a difference when I began redpointing 5.11 and 5.12 I only felt a difference when I began redpointing 5.13. I have a friend who only noticed a difference when he began redpointing 5.14. Your distinction is your experience, which is fine, but it is realitive to where you began your climbing experience, who taught you to climb, who you climb with, and where you climb most often. Your colors show through every time.

anyway,

What was this thread about? Smooth moves. I believe that working projects will make you way smoother in your muscle movements technical execution, and mental processing than any other advice out there. Sure, if you have the money hire a kick ass personal trainer do it, but if not, pick a hard ass project and work it. I know this sounds risky, you might not send, but the experience will be worth it. It's all about learning how to link hard moves and rest.

That might work for beginners . . .

I'm pretty much a beginner still but I'd just like to add that personally, I've found that climbing harder gym routes has improved my fluidity climbing easier ones. Because I'm neither tall nor strong, climbing harder routes means I'm forced to learn better technique that I can then internalize and apply to easier routes. I can't say it's the most efficient way timewise to become a smooth climber, but it's certainly more fun imho than putting abstract constraints on climbing.