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Two questions (TR and PAS)
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herites


Aug 21, 2011, 6:59 AM
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Two questions (TR and PAS)
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Which method is the best to set up a TR, also is it safe to use the the unused loop to anchor myself to? (filming the climber, taking a nap, etc :) )

Second question: I use a 80 cm open sling as my PAS, which is safer, girth hitch to belay loop or girth hitch through the tie-in points?









(This post was edited by herites on Aug 21, 2011, 7:01 AM)


redonkulus


Aug 21, 2011, 7:17 AM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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herites wrote:
Which method is the best to set up a TR, also is it safe to use the the unused loop to anchor myself to? (filming the climber, taking a nap, etc :) )

Second question: I use a 80 cm open sling as my PAS, which is safer, girth hitch to belay loop or girth hitch through the tie-in points?

[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG019.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG018.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG017.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG016.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG015.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u32/herites/IMG014.jpg[/IMG]

I won't speak for the anchors, since i'm certainly not the most knowledgeable on that subject, but as for the PAS, you will be fine either way, girth hitched through belay loop or tie in points. If you don't trust your belay loop, you shouldn't be belaying off of it, rappelling off of it, or really even using that harness any more.

Also, you might consider if you want to use two slings. One for the left bolt, one for the right. That's a personal choice though, and probably depends on how you clean the route. If you completely untie your rope, feed it through the rap rings, retie and lower, you should definitely be using two slings, since the only thing keeping you from dying at the top is one bolt, and it's not unheard of for a hanger to pop off, a bolt to come unscrewed, even a bolt to fail.

If you stay tied in, pass a bight through the rings, tie a figure 8 on a bight, locking biner it to your belay loop, then untie your other knot, you're just being safer overall, really. If that one bolt failed that you are clipped into, you still have all the other bolts below you that you clipped on the way up to keep you off the ground.

For what it's worth, it certainly doesn't hurt to use the bight method to clean an anchor, as well as clipping into both bolts with two slings. A little redundancy (probably) never hurt anyone, especially in this case.


jbone


Aug 21, 2011, 7:44 AM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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I seriously doubt that shelf will take a fall, I'd hope you'd pull that ps3 down before you load test it.


6pacfershur


Aug 21, 2011, 6:09 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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dude! your post has survived almost 12 hours without being flamed by one of the serial know-it-alls that stalk the forum....well done!


gmggg


Aug 22, 2011, 8:02 AM
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Re: [6pacfershur] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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6pacfershur wrote:
dude! your post has survived almost 12 hours without being flamed by one of the serial know-it-alls that stalk the forum....well done!

That's some very helpful information right there!

OP, that anchor system is more than adequate for bolted anchors and I'll vouch for Redonkulus' post if you had any doubts.


Rmsyll2


Aug 25, 2011, 7:36 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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Photo 1 uses a weak way to shorten the loop length, not recommended. Photo 2 is a standard method, weak right side improved by adding loop knot for attaching to carabiner. Photo 3 adds fine adjustment of equalization, safety hitch the Clove when set. Photo 4 adds knots for limiting extension from sliding X section; but weak left anchor attachment, improved in photo 5. The Clove hitch at left in photo 6 is useless for equalizing; it does put two strands at the carabiner, and a BFK on the right would make an entirely two-strand system.

Wonderful study, thank you. For your "also" question: I would, if it is on a safe bolted anchor with a safe ledge. For your "Second question": using girth hitch through the eye of a hanger is not recommended.

.


bearbreeder


Aug 25, 2011, 8:33 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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whuddah everyone else said

but id use 2 opposed biners at the masterpoint


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Aug 25, 2011, 8:34 PM)


chilli


Aug 25, 2011, 9:32 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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as far as the pics, the latter will work (though i'd tie the limiters a bit closer). but with all that extra cord and [apparently] a 2-bolt anchor, why don't you just fold it an extra time and tie a quad? = redundant, dynamically equalized, and bomber

as far as the belay loop vs. tie-in points, girth-hitches and the rope go into the tie-in points. the belay loop is rated to be plenty strong enough, but the tie-in points on modern harnesses have layered structure designed to take the wear of soft goods constantly rubbing in the same contact point. the belay loop, on the other hand, is bar-tacked webbing designed for hardware. in short, IMO if you were just going to use your PAS and then remove it, then the belay loop is tolerable, but if you want to be able to leave it i'd suggest the tie-in points.
the argument could go back and forth on this ad nauseum (and either way realistically you'll probably live), but the manufacturers appropriately designed that stuff for the intended purpose. why not just use it that way?

edit: and i agree about the 2 biners in the masterpoint


(This post was edited by chilli on Aug 25, 2011, 9:33 PM)


Partner j_ung


Aug 26, 2011, 3:57 AM
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Re: [chilli] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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^^ What he said.


rescueman


Aug 26, 2011, 9:58 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
but id use 2 opposed biners at the masterpoint


The Gospel according to bearbreeder.


bearbreeder


Aug 26, 2011, 10:02 AM
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Re: [rescueman] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
but id use 2 opposed biners at the masterpoint


The Gospel according to bearbreeder.

i didnt even say lockers .... i guess you would use 2 unopposed non lockers then Tongue


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Aug 26, 2011, 10:03 AM)


rescueman


Aug 26, 2011, 10:04 AM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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The only ones which are not OK are the clove hitch without a backup and the flat overhand on a bight (pic 1) that will roll under load.

And, unless you plan to wander off route, a fixed focused anchor (tied off cordelette) is safer than a sliding X which can extend (if even a little with the stopper knots) if one anchor fails. But I would tie it with a figure-8 rather than overhand.

I'm not sure I would trust the shelf brackets, though, for anchors. Trees or bolts are preferred.

And, yes, double biners at the master point are the standard, but opposed not necessary with lockers.


(This post was edited by rescueman on Aug 26, 2011, 10:06 AM)


aprice00


Aug 26, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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If you hung from the "unused loop" from the Pic 1 and Pic 4 set-up you'd pull the master point into a 180 degree alignment with your bolts.

Might make for a dynamic belay if the climber fell but realy it would just be stupid.

Oh and you have ugly walls.


aprice00


Aug 26, 2011, 12:15 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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As for the PAS,
I use two slings one girth hitched to belay. the other girth hitched up through both tie in loops.

Dont know if this is the safest way out there, but Im sure someone will chime if not.

Realy you should get rid of that wall paper.


WesternSkies


Sep 6, 2011, 8:14 PM
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Re: [herites] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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New to this. What does TR and PAS stand for? Quick google search didn't turn up the answer. Thanks


TarHeelEMT


Sep 6, 2011, 8:22 PM
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Re: [WesternSkies] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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WesternSkies wrote:
New to this. What does TR and PAS stand for? Quick google search didn't turn up the answer. Thanks

Top rope and personal anchor system

Top rope is similar to the sort of setup that you're probably used to seeing in a gym, with a rope running from the climber through an anchor at the top of a climb and back down to the belayer.

"Personal anchor system" is actually a brand name, but the original poster is using it to refer to his improvised system of attaching himself to the anchor while working at the top of the cliff.


(This post was edited by TarHeelEMT on Sep 6, 2011, 8:22 PM)


macblaze


Sep 6, 2011, 8:24 PM
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Re: [WesternSkies] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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WesternSkies wrote:
New to this. What does TR and PAS stand for? Quick google search didn't turn up the answer. Thanks

Very very new...

TR=top rope
PAS= personal anchor system (a Metolius product)


moose_droppings


Sep 6, 2011, 9:10 PM
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Re: [macblaze] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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TR can sometimes also stand for Trip Report. It is usually easy to tell them a part and is followed by something like, TR of Remmington's Needle in the Black Hills.


WesternSkies


Sep 7, 2011, 8:38 AM
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Re: [macblaze] Two questions (TR and PAS) [In reply to]
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macblaze wrote:
WesternSkies wrote:
New to this. What does TR and PAS stand for? Quick google search didn't turn up the answer. Thanks

Very very new...

TR=top rope
PAS= personal anchor system (a Metolius product)

Yes sir. I did two top rope climbs with a buddy on rock, never climbed in a gym, and now I'm completely obsessed and can't wait to start taking lessons. Expect more dumb questions from me in the future. Thanks for the answers though


TarHeelEMT


Sep 7, 2011, 8:40 AM
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Have fun!


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