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pinktricam


Aug 23, 2011, 11:08 PM
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Three things about Islam
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I found this very interesting video quite enlightening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 24, 2011, 3:59 AM
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Re: [pinktricam] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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pinktricam wrote:
I found this very interesting video quite enlightening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

You are easily enlightened influenced... Even if incorrectly, as long as it reinforces your prejudices.

Relevant (to #1) question, pink... What would you consider a better source for devinely inspired information: A burning bush, or an angel sent by God?


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 24, 2011, 3:59 AM)


traddad


Aug 24, 2011, 6:17 AM
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Re: [rrrADAM] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
I found this very interesting video quite enlightening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

You are easily enlightened influenced... Even if incorrectly, as long as it reinforces your prejudices.

Relevant (to #1) question, pink... What would you consider a better source for devinely inspired information: A burning bush, or an angel sent by God?

Heh...he said "burning bush" ....Pinky'll never get any of that.


camhead


Aug 24, 2011, 7:06 AM
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Re: [traddad] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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there's a lot wrong with the video (I'm only into it halfway at this point).

1- it keeps mentioning "Mohammad writing the Q'uran." Actually, he never wrote anything down; he recited the passages verbally, it was only compiled into cohesive written form after his death.

2- the bigger question is, if the Q'uran is so inherrently violent and different than the Torah or the Bible, and so hostile to believers "picking and choosing" what to believe, how do we explain centuries of Islam being actually MORE religiously tolerant than Christianity? There is a lot more to the current crisis in Islam than just what its scripture says.

3- I assume that this video has been making its way around evangelical circles in the last few months, since PTC just linked it, and since last night my evangelical cousin-in-law actually recited some of its arguments almost verbatim. Its assumption that to be a true believing Muslim one must follow the Q'uran to a "t" actually would appeal to the worldviews of biblical literalists.

So, yeah, overly simplistic to the point of setting up "straw man" arguments.


traddad


Aug 24, 2011, 7:55 AM
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Re: [camhead] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
there's a lot wrong with the video

2- the bigger question is, if the Bible is so inherrently violent and different than the Torah or the Q'uran, and so hostile to believers "picking and choosing" what to believe, how do we explain centuries of Christianity being religiously tolerant? There is a lot more to the current crisis in Christianity than just what its scripture says.

This works too.


veganclimber


Aug 24, 2011, 9:03 AM
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Re: [camhead] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
there's a lot wrong with the video (I'm only into it halfway at this point).

That's surprising, considering how well researched the video is. From the information:

"Parts of the text have been strongly inspired by the website" http://www.citizenwarrior.com/


I checked out the site and they have some very insightful articles. Such as:

Lessons on Jihad From the Movie, "What About Bob?"

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/...ovie-what-about.html

In reply to:
I WAS THINKING of writing an article about the infuriating cleverness of orthodox Muslims, and I was wondering what I could use to illustrate what they're doing. And then it came to me in a flash: The movie, What About Bob?

In the movie, Bill Murray plays a psychiatric patient who drives his psychiatrist crazy (Dr. Leo Marvin, played by Richard Dreyfus).

I just watched it again and the parallels to orthodox Islam's dealings with the West are amazing. Bob uses the same techniques on Dr. Marvin that orthodox Muslims use against the United States and Europe, and with similar results: Bob successfully fools everyone except Dr. Marvin, and Dr. Marvin becomes infuriated and helpless, but unable to stop it.


squierbypetzl
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Aug 24, 2011, 9:30 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
I checked out the site and they have some very insightful articles. Such as:

Lessons on Republican electoral strategy From the Movie, "What About Bob?"

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/...ovie-what-about.html

In reply to:
I WAS THINKING of writing an article about the infuriating cleverness/stupidity of modern republican leaders, and I was wondering what I could use to illustrate what they're doing. And then it came to me in a flash: The movie, What About Bob?

In the movie, Bill Murray plays a psychiatric patient who drives his psychiatrist crazy (Dr. Leo Marvin, played by Richard Dreyfus).

I just watched it again and the parallels to modern republican leaders dealings with the West are amazing. Bob uses the same techniques on Dr. Marvin that modern republican leaders use against the United States and Europe, and with similar results: Bob successfully fools everyone except Dr. Marvin, and Dr. Marvin becomes infuriated and helpless, but unable to stop it.

Uncanny.


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 24, 2011, 1:40 PM
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Re: [traddad] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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Pretty nice read:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/...ts-not-in-the-bible/

Although not much most non-believers don't already know.

But I like the idea proposed on "why"...
In reply to:
Others blame the spread of phantom Bible passages on King James, or more specifically the declining popularity of the King James translation of the Bible.

That translation, which marks 400 years of existence this year, had a near monopoly on the Bible market as recently as 50 years ago, says Douglas Jacobsen, a professor of church history and theology at Messiah College in Pennsylvania.

“If you quoted the Bible and got it wrong then, people were more likely to notice because there was only one text,” he says. “Today, so many different translations are used that almost no one can tell for sure if something supposedly from the Bible is being quoted accurately or not.”

Others blame the spread of phantom biblical verses on Martin Luther, the German monk who ignited the Protestant Reformation, the massive “protest” against the excesses of the Roman Catholic Church that led to the formation of Protestant church denominations.

“It is a great Protestant tradition for anyone - milkmaid, cobbler, or innkeeper - to be able to pick up the Bible and read for herself. No need for a highly trained scholar or cleric to walk a lay person through the text,” says Craig Hazen, director of the Christian Apologetics program at Biola University in Southern California.

But often the milkmaid, the cobbler - and the NFL coach - start creating biblical passages without the guidance of biblical experts, he says.

“You can see this manifest today in living room Bible studies across North America where lovely Christian people, with no training whatsoever, drink decaf, eat brownies and ask each other, ‘What does this text mean to you?’’’ Hazen says.

“Not only do they get the interpretation wrong, but very often end up quoting verses that really aren’t there.”

Just make it up to fit what ever you want, and only hang with those that reinforce it... And walla(!), "the Bible says so".


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 24, 2011, 1:42 PM)


pinktricam


Aug 27, 2011, 2:11 AM
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Re: [camhead] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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Here's what I took away from the video:

1. With two contradicting passages, the one written later supercedes the one written earlier. Thus, the "peaceful" passages have been abrogated by the less tolerant, more violent passages written later.

2. That there are actual Shari'a courts that currently exist in the U.K. and that attempts are currently being made to introduce these courts in other western nations (ie. Germany and Sweden.)

3. This point troubled me most: TAQIYYA: Muslims are allowed and encouraged to decieve non-Muslims if it helps Islam; The Qur'an allows Muslims to lie to protect Islam! (not exactly what a person seeking truth/spiritual enlightenment would feel comfortable with, eh?)

Anyway, if you know all about everything already, then nevermind. But I thought these were valid and interesting points. YMMV.


justroberto


Aug 27, 2011, 5:29 PM
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pinktricam wrote:
Here's what I took away from the video:

1. With two contradicting passages, the one written later supercedes the one written earlier. Thus, the "peaceful" passages have been abrogated by the less tolerant, more violent passages written later.

2. That there are actual Shari'a courts that currently exist in the U.K. and that attempts are currently being made to introduce these courts in other western nations (ie. Germany and Sweden.)

3. This point troubled me most: TAQIYYA: Muslims are allowed and encouraged to decieve non-Muslims if it helps Islam; The Qur'an allows Muslims to lie to protect Islam! (not exactly what a person seeking truth/spiritual enlightenment would feel comfortable with, eh?)

Anyway, if you know all about everything already, then nevermind. But I thought these were valid and interesting points. YMMV.

So, what we're to take away is that the Koran is peaceful and loving in the beginning, and all fucked-up, violent and hateful in the later passages, which are typically ignored by mainstream Muslims.

The bible is fucked-up, violent, and hateful in the OT, then Hay-Zeus comes in the NT and tells everyone to ignore all that antiquated horseshit and be peaceful, loving, non-judgemental, and all-around kind, which is now typically ignored by mainstream Christians.

How can you say that your fucked-up beliefs are any better than some other guy's fucked-up beliefs?


pinktricam


Aug 27, 2011, 6:21 PM
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Re: [justroberto] Three things about Islam [In reply to]
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From your post, I was also prompted to recall the video stating something about people only accepting information matching their own world view.

Boy, aint that the truth!


Partner j_ung


Aug 27, 2011, 7:30 PM
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pinktricam wrote:
From your post, I was also prompted to recall the video stating something about people only accepting information matching their own world view.

Boy, aint that the truth!

I made it through the first minute or so (the graphics paired with the crazy Dutch accent got pretty tedious after that). What I got from that minute was that, if you want to understand the Koran, you ought to start by actually reading it.

Show of hands... who here has sat down with a copy of the Koran and read it?


pinktricam


Aug 27, 2011, 7:36 PM
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I think it was a German accent. Whiterose was the name of an anti-nazi movement in prewar Germany.


justroberto


Aug 27, 2011, 10:31 PM
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pinktricam wrote:
From your post, I was also prompted to recall the video stating something about people only accepting information matching their own world view.

Boy, aint that the truth!

Well, you said it!


pinktricam


Aug 27, 2011, 11:32 PM
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Yes, but my world view aligns with what's happening in this world only after it changed from what was probably once similar to your current world view...I actually managed to get out of my comfort zone.


justroberto


Aug 27, 2011, 11:59 PM
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pinktricam wrote:
Yes, but my world view aligns with what's happening in this world only after it changed from what was probably once similar to your current world view...I actually managed to get out of my comfort zone.

You're still preaching to the choir, though my experience is the diametric opposite of yours.


ubu


Aug 28, 2011, 5:15 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
2. That there are actual Shari'a courts that currently exist in the U.K. and that attempts are currently being made to introduce these courts in other western nations (ie. Germany and Sweden.)

I agree that sharia is a reprehensible code to use as the basis of a legal system, but it's important to distinguish between sharia courts, which enjoy legal force from the state, and sharia councils or tribunals or whatever they call them in the UK, which are basically just private mediation centers. There is no force of law behind decisions made by these "courts". This is not to say I think their existence is a good thing -- allowing the remnants of tribalism to operate in an advanced western society is kind of embarrassing -- but it's a far cry from some kind of Muslim takeover of British law.


Partner j_ung


Aug 28, 2011, 6:32 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
Yes, but my world view aligns with what's happening in this world only after it changed from what was probably once similar to your current world view...I actually managed to get out of my comfort zone.

I'm not sure that's really relevant. Okay, you managed to get out of your worldview rut once... and into another one. Either way, you're still in a rut.


traddad


Aug 28, 2011, 8:25 AM
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j_ung wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
Yes, but my world view aligns with what's happening in this world only after it changed from what was probably once similar to your current world view...I actually managed to get out of my comfort zone.

I'm not sure that's really relevant. Okay, you managed to get out of your worldview rut once... and into another one. Either way, you're still in a rut.

He changes ruts but does nothing about the ancient, poorly designed vehicle that keeps steering him into those ruts.


curt


Aug 29, 2011, 7:16 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
Yes, but my world view aligns with what's happening in this world only after it changed from what was probably once similar to your current world view...I actually managed to get out of my comfort zone.

Moving from a fairly logical and balanced world view to paranoia/insanity isn't exactly anything to brag about...

Curt


Toast_in_the_Machine


Aug 29, 2011, 8:05 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
2. That there are actual Shari'a courts that currently exist in the U.K. and that attempts are currently being made to introduce these courts in other western nations (ie. Germany and Sweden.)

Ok, so I did some quick googling (ewww), and here is the news article:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/...h/article4749183.ece
In reply to:
Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously operated under a precursor to the act.

So they are arbitration courts that have as their arbitrators people judging from a religious and not case law basis. Personally it is a snore to me. But...

Is it any different here in the US with Capialism as the god for our existing arbitration system?


superchuffer


Aug 29, 2011, 12:55 PM
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I'm voting Bachman/Pinky next year. the paranoid crazy ticket.


traddad


Aug 29, 2011, 1:00 PM
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superchuffer wrote:
I'm voting Bachman/Pinky next year. the paranoid crazy ticket.

Bumper Sticker:

You Can't Stop the Crazy!!
--Bachman/Pinky, 1012


Partner rrrADAM


Aug 30, 2011, 4:12 AM
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pinktricam wrote:
From your post, I was also prompted to recall the video stating something about people only accepting information matching their own world view.

Boy, aint that the truth!
And, of course, this includes what one takes from a propaganda video, right? As, I'm sure you do NOT recognize it as such, since it aligns with and reinforces your views.

Just as a check of your own 'balances', Eric, please tell us 3 things positive about Islam... I'll bet you are not balanced enough to do it.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Aug 30, 2011, 4:13 AM)


pinktricam


Sep 3, 2011, 7:07 AM
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camhead wrote:
There is a lot more to the current crisis in Islam than just what its scripture says.

What current crisis in Islam??

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