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Danx


Aug 28, 2011, 1:54 AM
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sungam


Aug 28, 2011, 3:13 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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It's fine. The reason that the notches in your 'biner can be an issue sport climbing is because so much time is spent hanging/falling on draws, and the rope moves through the 'biner. Your slings will be fine.


acorneau


Aug 28, 2011, 5:48 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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If you have deep gouges/burrs on your hanger-end biners then they could chew up your webbing/slings, but it's not an issue with wired nuts. You can always take an emory cloth (a type of fine sandpaper) to the biners to sand them smooth.

I have enough gear that I have slings just for trad climbing and keep my sport draws for sport.


rescueman


Aug 28, 2011, 8:02 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Danx wrote:
Is it ok to use sport quickdraws for trad climbing?

No.

Sport quickdraws are too bold and flashy for trad.


(This post was edited by rescueman on Aug 28, 2011, 8:02 AM)


Danx


Aug 28, 2011, 8:38 AM
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Danx


Aug 28, 2011, 8:39 AM
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jacques


Aug 28, 2011, 8:49 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Danx wrote:
Is it ok to use sport quickdraws for trad climbing?

Try to use a quicdraw with a tricam. teh movement of the rope will dislodge it very fast. If you bring ten sling...5 quicdraw...the chance to dislodge a nuts is higher. As it is weight less to bring more sling and that you can do more thing with them, I think that sling are better for trad.


rescueman


Aug 28, 2011, 8:50 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Danx wrote:
The draws I use for sport aren't bold and flashy.

I guess I should have included an emoticon, such as Wink or Crazy, but I thought my sarcasm was obvious.

And what you'll need most for trad are full and half slings, not quickdraws, both to reduce movement of the pro and to keep your rope running straight to reduce drag.


(This post was edited by rescueman on Aug 28, 2011, 8:52 AM)


petsfed


Aug 28, 2011, 9:16 AM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
Danx wrote:
The draws I use for sport aren't bold and flashy.

I guess I should have included an emoticon, such as Wink or Crazy, but I thought my sarcasm was obvious.

And what you'll need most for trad are full and half slings, not quickdraws, both to reduce movement of the pro and to keep your rope running straight to reduce drag.

Sorry, half as in 12" or half as in 24". I can honestly say that I've never owned a 12" sling, although I know they sell them. There's just never been a situation where I needed to be that precise with the sling length but couldn't stop to double one of my 24" slings.

In general, if I know the rope is very straight and takes a lot of nuts, I'll pack the quickdraws. Otherwise, they don't get used trad climbing, since the cam slings serve to minimize rope drag on straight routes, and the quickdraws aren't long enough on wandering routes.


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 9:24 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
And what you'll need most for trad are full and half slings, not quickdraws, both to reduce movement of the pro and to keep your rope running straight to reduce drag.

That's an important point - reducing movement of the pro and reducing drag caused by changes in direction of the rope.

"full" versus "half", "double" versus "single", etc.: can be confusing in a Beginners forum. Most of the slings I trad lead with can extend to two feet in length. I also tend to bring along two to six four-foot slings depending on the route.

I'll recommend not using quick draws on trad leads. It'll work some of the time but one will often run into leads where for almost every gear placement quickdraws are too short.

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 28, 2011, 9:26 AM)


rescueman


Aug 28, 2011, 10:06 AM
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Re: [petsfed] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
Sorry, half as in 12" or half as in 24".

I should have been more specific. A full sling is 24" in length (sewn or tied, end-to-end loop length), a half sling is 12" and a double sling is 48".

I also carry mostly 24" slings folded in half, and a couple 12". I don't carry any 48" slings since I have more than enough 24" to double up in the rare event I need a longer extension, for instance to get around an overhang, though I do carry a couple lengths of 1" webbing to add to questionable rappel anchors. I use only nylon slings and most are 11/16" sewn.

I rack my spring-loaded cams on quickdraws, though, since the factory sling and the quick draw are often enough extension for straight crack routes, and I can always clip a regular runner instead, leaving the quickdraw hanging.


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 10:43 AM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
I also carry mostly 24" slings folded in half...

Have you considered tripling them? If done right, an advantage is that one can extend them with one hand as follows:

* place the pro;
* attach the tripled sling to the pro via biner and let it hang;
* at the lower biner, release two of the three strands;
* pull the lower biner and sling should fully extend (edit: ... without the sling coming free of either biner).

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 28, 2011, 10:47 AM)


vinnie83


Aug 28, 2011, 4:12 PM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Danx wrote:
Thanks

I'll keep the emory cloth in mind as well. So far the draws are in good condition but didnt want to go and ruin expensive cams!

FYI, if you do damage the pre sewn slings on your cams you haven't damaged your expensive cams, but rather the cheap and easily replaceable slings attached to them.


Kartessa


Aug 28, 2011, 4:58 PM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
Danx wrote:
Is it ok to use sport quickdraws for trad climbing?

No.

Sport quickdraws are too bold and flashy for trad.

I'd almost find that funny if you weren't such a self-riteous douche.


notapplicable


Aug 28, 2011, 5:08 PM
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Re: [Kartessa] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Kartessa wrote:
rescueman wrote:
Danx wrote:
Is it ok to use sport quickdraws for trad climbing?

No.

Sport quickdraws are too bold and flashy for trad.

I'd almost find that funny if you weren't such a self-riteous douche.

Interesting. I feel the same way about this post.


bearbreeder


Aug 28, 2011, 6:56 PM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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there's this bum in squamish named sonnie trotter that uses quickdraws on occasion ... its rumored that he might even know a thing or two about trad climbing ... Wink

but then im sure certain RC "experts" will tell you how stupid he is for using ... Tongue


rescueman


Aug 28, 2011, 7:49 PM
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Re: [billl7] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
Have you considered tripling them? If done right, an advantage is that one can extend them with one hand

My doubled runners extend with one hand, too (sliding X). And I rack everything on a chest harness with two front gear slings, so nothing hangs down low, everything's easy to see and reach, and I'm not carrying a lot of weight on my seat harness.


moose_droppings


Aug 28, 2011, 7:50 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
[image]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7545/picture27hg.png[/image]

[image]http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1462/picture28u.png[/image]

there's this bum in squamish named sonnie trotter that uses quickdraws on occasion ... its rumored that he might even know a thing or two about trad climbing ... Wink

but then im sure certain RC "experts" will tell you how stupid he is for using ... Tongue

Nobody here has seriously suggested to never use a quickdraw for trad have they?


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 8:26 PM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
My doubled runners extend with one hand, too (sliding X). And I rack everything on a chest harness with two front gear slings, so nothing hangs down low, everything's easy to see and reach, and I'm not carrying a lot of weight on my seat harness.
Thanks for the clarification. Just saying "doubled" "folded in half" in a beginners forum could lead someone down the path.Angelic


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 28, 2011, 8:30 PM)


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 8:28 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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moose_droppings wrote:
Nobody here has seriously suggested to never use a quickdraw for trad have they?
Blush


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 28, 2011, 8:28 PM)


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 8:39 PM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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By the way, yesterday I was looking over a self-rescue book by Fasulo. Reminded me of the difference of opinion we had when I saw a figure 8 tie-in backup up with a "1/2 fisherman".


rescueman


Aug 28, 2011, 9:36 PM
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Re: [billl7] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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billl7 wrote:
Reminded me of the difference of opinion we had when I saw a figure 8 tie-in backup up with a "1/2 fisherman".

No difference of opinion. A 1/2 fisherman is a logical impossibility, since a fisherman is a bend (i.e. two rope ends tied to each other). And since what is colloquially, but confusingly, called a fisherman or double fisherman is, in reality, an overhand bend or a double overhand bend.

So if we bothered to learn the language of knots, bends and hitches, and to label them correctly according to the family they're part of (e.g. overhand, figure-8, bowline), then we can actually communicate.

And if we understand that knots have the qualities of strength, security and stability - in various proportions - and (ideally) the characteristics of being easy to tie, easy to inspect, easy to untie and matching the intended function... then we would always know just the right knot for each application.


(This post was edited by rescueman on Aug 28, 2011, 9:37 PM)


billl7


Aug 28, 2011, 9:56 PM
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Re: [rescueman] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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rescueman wrote:
billl7 wrote:
Reminded me of the difference of opinion we had when I saw a figure 8 tie-in backup up with a "1/2 fisherman".

No difference of opinion. A 1/2 fisherman is a logical impossibility, since a fisherman is a bend (i.e. two rope ends tied to each other)...

It's child's play. A half fisherman is when you begin tieing a fisherman and you stop half way.

Bill L


(This post was edited by billl7 on Aug 28, 2011, 9:56 PM)


Danx


Aug 29, 2011, 1:48 AM
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blueeyedclimber


Aug 29, 2011, 5:28 AM
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Re: [Danx] Sport and trad quickdraws [In reply to]
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Danx wrote:
Is it ok to use sport quickdraws for trad climbing?

Short answer: yes

Long answer: It depends.

Josh

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