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Rock-Monkey


Aug 29, 2011, 7:45 AM
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An upside down start V0?
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A question for you more experienced boulderers out thereÖ

I am fairly new to the sport and have been working my way up the grades in my LCG, I have been able climb a few V1 and V2ís with 7+ moves but there is one in particular (V0) that starts completely upside down and has a good 4 moves (not including feet placement) before you can start to levi yourself over the crevice. I can sometimes make it the arm placement just above the crevice but normally by this time both legs are unbalanced and I donít have the strength left in me to get over it. Is this just an extreme case of a V0? Is this normal?

Thanks for any advice.


MS1


Aug 29, 2011, 9:09 AM
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Rock-Monkey wrote:
A question for you more experienced boulderers out thereÖ

I am fairly new to the sport and have been working my way up the grades in my LCG, I have been able climb a few V1 and V2ís with 7+ moves but there is one in particular (V0) that starts completely upside down and has a good 4 moves (not including feet placement) before you can start to levi yourself over the crevice. I can sometimes make it the arm placement just above the crevice but normally by this time both legs are unbalanced and I donít have the strength left in me to get over it. Is this just an extreme case of a V0? Is this normal?

Thanks for any advice.

First, I suspect that by "upside-down" you mean "steeply overhanging." If that is the case, then yes, you can set a steep v0 if the holds are comfortable jugs and the spacing between them is not too long.


Rock-Monkey


Aug 29, 2011, 9:24 AM
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First, I suspect that by "upside-down" you mean "steeply overhanging." If that is the case, then yes, you can set a steep v0 if the holds are comfortable jugs and the spacing between them is not too long.
This is a much better word for it and thank you for the updated lingo.

The hangs are not to bad to be honest; it gets progressively harder as the one that is very stretched out is not that great of a hang, and its the one I always fall on. some more practice is obviously in order.


JoeHamilton


Aug 29, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Rock-Monkey wrote:

First, I suspect that by "upside-down" you mean "steeply overhanging." If that is the case, then yes, you can set a steep v0 if the holds are comfortable jugs and the spacing between them is not too long.
This is a much better word for it and thank you for the updated lingo.

The hangs are not to bad to be honest; it gets progressively harder as the one that is very stretched out is not that great of a hang, and its the one I always fall on. some more practice is obviously in order.

That sounds like the v0 that will push you into the v1 area on a more vertical wall, keep at it


Rock-Monkey


Aug 29, 2011, 1:52 PM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
Rock-Monkey wrote:

First, I suspect that by "upside-down" you mean "steeply overhanging." If that is the case, then yes, you can set a steep v0 if the holds are comfortable jugs and the spacing between them is not too long.

This is a much better word for it and thank you for the updated lingo.

The hangs are not to bad to be honest; it gets progressively harder as the one that is very stretched out is not that great of a hang, and its the one I always fall on. some more practice is obviously in order.

That sounds like the v0 that will push you into the v1 area on a more vertical wall, keep at it
I did not know that the V scale worked like this... i guess i was under the wrong impression that it would have been higher on the V scale because of its vertical'ness. This does make sense, i will keep everyone posted on my progress of this problem, hopefully i will have it complete this week.


JoeHamilton


Aug 30, 2011, 9:07 AM
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 a striaght vertical V anything will feel easier then an overhanging problem will. Gravity wants to pull you off the problem. Take the same problem, in a matter of move sequence, put it on a less then vertical incline, then VERTICAL, then OVERHANGING, and it will just simply feel harder and harder to complete do to degree of angle, and gravity. Yet because of the sequence, and the holds, could all still be within the same grade of dificulty. It does seem confusing, and hence why many say " just climb and have fun, foget the rateings and enjoy".


shockabuku


Aug 30, 2011, 9:10 AM
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Consider trying to place your feet more usefully.


MS1


Aug 30, 2011, 9:13 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
a striaght vertical V anything will feel easier then an overhanging problem will. Gravity wants to pull you off the problem. Take the same problem, in a matter of move sequence, put it on a less then vertical incline, then VERTICAL, then OVERHANGING, and it will just simply feel harder and harder to complete do to degree of angle, and gravity. Yet because of the sequence, and the holds, could all still be within the same grade of dificulty. It does seem confusing, and hence why many say " just climb and have fun, foget the rateings and enjoy".

It all depends on what you are good at. For me, at most grades within my reach, a steep problem feels easier than a vertical one. The reason for this? I don't like small crimps, so I don't spend much time pushing my limits on vertical terrain.


Rock-Monkey


Aug 30, 2011, 9:32 AM
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I have a lot of things to work on and i am taking this full week off to have a completely fresh Saturday run with the wife and hopefully complete this.

It has been running through my head and I have been trying to figure out if its a feet placement thing or an endurance and power issue. I am sure it is a bit of both, but its more one than the other.

Because i am new to the sport their are some very fundamental and obvious things i need to work on, i was wondering how ever because of what i have climbed in the past (and not being as hard) if this problem was really a V0. I am still learning all of this and processing it for further use.

Thanks everyone for the advice, its helping me develop into a better climber.


MS1


Aug 30, 2011, 9:36 AM
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Re: [Rock-Monkey] An upside down start V0? [In reply to]
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Rock-Monkey wrote:
I have a lot of things to work on and i am taking this full week off to have a completely fresh Saturday run with the wife and hopefully complete this.

It has been running through my head and I have been trying to figure out if its a feet placement thing or an endurance and power issue. I am sure it is a bit of both, but its more one than the other.

Because i am new to the sport their are some very fundamental and obvious things i need to work on, i was wondering how ever because of what i have climbed in the past (and not being as hard) if this problem was really a V0. I am still learning all of this and processing it for further use.

Thanks everyone for the advice, its helping me develop into a better climber.

Ultimately we have no way of evaluating whether your problem is easier or harder than v0. If you want to figure that out, the best way to do so is to discuss the problem with several experienced people who have climbed it and get their opinions.


johnwesely


Aug 30, 2011, 10:01 AM
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JoeHamilton wrote:
a striaght vertical V anything will feel easier then an overhanging problem will. Gravity wants to pull you off the problem. Take the same problem, in a matter of move sequence, put it on a less then vertical incline, then VERTICAL, then OVERHANGING, and it will just simply feel harder and harder to complete do to degree of angle, and gravity. Yet because of the sequence, and the holds, could all still be within the same grade of dificulty. It does seem confusing, and hence why many say " just climb and have fun, foget the rateings and enjoy".

That is fairly confusing.


Rock-Monkey


Aug 30, 2011, 12:03 PM
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MS1 wrote:
Rock-Monkey wrote:
I have a lot of things to work on and i am taking this full week off to have a completely fresh Saturday run with the wife and hopefully complete this.

It has been running through my head and I have been trying to figure out if its a feet placement thing or an endurance and power issue. I am sure it is a bit of both, but its more one than the other.

Because i am new to the sport their are some very fundamental and obvious things i need to work on, i was wondering how ever because of what i have climbed in the past (and not being as hard) if this problem was really a V0. I am still learning all of this and processing it for further use.

Thanks everyone for the advice, its helping me develop into a better climber.

Ultimately we have no way of evaluating whether your problem is easier or harder than v0. If you want to figure that out, the best way to do so is to discuss the problem with several experienced people who have climbed it and get their opinions.

It was a long shot whether i would describe it properly (and i am sure i did not) as i am still getting the hang (haha) of everything. I will ask some people around the gym what they think of it, could be i am missing something that would make it much easier.


JoeHamilton


Aug 30, 2011, 8:12 PM
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Rock-Monkey wrote:
MS1 wrote:
Rock-Monkey wrote:
I have a lot of things to work on and i am taking this full week off to have a completely fresh Saturday run with the wife and hopefully complete this.

It has been running through my head and I have been trying to figure out if its a feet placement thing or an endurance and power issue. I am sure it is a bit of both, but its more one than the other.

Because i am new to the sport their are some very fundamental and obvious things i need to work on, i was wondering how ever because of what i have climbed in the past (and not being as hard) if this problem was really a V0. I am still learning all of this and processing it for further use.

Thanks everyone for the advice, its helping me develop into a better climber.

Ultimately we have no way of evaluating whether your problem is easier or harder than v0. If you want to figure that out, the best way to do so is to discuss the problem with several experienced people who have climbed it and get their opinions.

It was a long shot whether i would describe it properly (and i am sure i did not) as i am still getting the hang (haha) of everything. I will ask some people around the gym what they think of it, could be i am missing something that would make it much easier.


something missing = exprerience. From the sounds of things anyway. Just keep at it


Rock-Monkey


Aug 31, 2011, 5:58 AM
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Well i am headed there tonight to gain some more experience and hopefully tackle this problem. Feeling fresh so I think i got a good shot at it.


saint_john


Aug 31, 2011, 8:35 AM
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Re: [Rock-Monkey] An upside down start V0? [In reply to]
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grades are highly subjective. I wouldn't waste too much time debating on whether or not a problem is V-whatever.
I will say that with any "upside down" (or steep, roof, ceiling, overhang...) problem, proper foot placement is crucial.


Rock-Monkey


Aug 31, 2011, 9:05 AM
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saint_john wrote:
grades are highly subjective. I wouldn't waste too much time debating on whether or not a problem is V-whatever.
I will say that with any "upside down" (or steep, roof, ceiling, overhang...) problem, proper foot placement is crucial.

I was talking to my wife about that earlier and one of my biggest issues is just using power over form and forcing my way up the climb. I am going to work on that in particular tonight and really take my time finding the easiest route for the problem i am working on.


tolman_paul


Aug 31, 2011, 3:07 PM
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The steeper a route is, the more upper body strength and endurance you need. Unless you came into the sport as a gymnast, you simply aren't likely to have the upper body and especially grip strength you need for severly overhanging climbs.

Essentially the same thing is the tick clock. On steep routes, there is only so much time your arms are going to hold out for, so you have to move quickly. The trouble is, you are hanging there trying to figure out the moves, and just flame out before topping out.

Grades are relative, and while technically a route may be a certain grade, you may need to be a much better stronger climber to pull off certain climbs of a given grade. Just because you are able to climb many climbs of a given grade, doesn't mean you'll be able to pull off all routes of that grade.


Rock-Monkey


Sep 1, 2011, 6:47 AM
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Update: i did it! on try three with some much needed updated feet placement and watching some guy after i struggled do it no problem i noticed that my feet placement could have been better. I will say that doing that climb first before any other left me fresh for it, but effectively leaving myself with better foot placement (not just higher but not in a bad position for my next move) really helped.

I found another V0 to work on that has about the same feet positioning issue. Feel good after figuring that one out, now on to new and better things!


lazymonkey


Sep 4, 2011, 4:50 AM
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fuck it wheres the facepalm smiley??


sungam


Sep 4, 2011, 5:13 AM
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Rock-Monkey wrote:
Update: i did it! on try three with some much needed updated feet placement and watching some guy after i struggled do it no problem i noticed that my feet placement could have been better. I will say that doing that climb first before any other left me fresh for it, but effectively leaving myself with better foot placement (not just higher but not in a bad position for my next move) really helped.

I found another V0 to work on that has about the same feet positioning issue. Feel good after figuring that one out, now on to new and better things!
Glad you managed your project. Some advice on future climbs:


Keep watching your feet and looking for different footholds. Think about the different body positions the footholds will put you in. Explore body positions, foot positions on the holds, and pushing/pulling your centre of gravity around with your feet. You can do this on warm-ups and projects. When you find the position/holds that feel the best on a project, keep using them but just tweak your position/momentum use.

At this point your developing technique is much more important then your developing fore-arms. It seems you have picked up on that, just stay with it. Foot work and body positions, give them yore attenshunz!


Rock-Monkey


Sep 4, 2011, 6:12 AM
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Thanks for the tip!

My wife and i went back yesterday and was able to complete 3 V1's and almost got a V1+ that was impossible just a week earlier with the way i was climbing. One particular V1 i had to really trust my feet to guide me up for hand placement and it gave me more confidence every time i tried it.

I was really using to much upper body at first and wearing myself out fast, not really trusting anything but what i could see above me. Once i started trusting my feet and gravity it became much easier, hell i would have kept climbing but my wife was done haha.


TheNags


Sep 5, 2011, 8:57 PM
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It has been said umpteen times, but I will repeat. Footwork is key, I found that when I started 4 months ago I couldn't send anything.. someone showed me how to use footwork (pinky toe vs big toe, ect) in order to gain reach and steady my center of balance. after that I jumped almost 2 grades (5.7 to 5.9). stay with it and learn from everyone you can! congrats on sending the problem and good luck with future projects!


cardboarddog


Oct 2, 2011, 11:30 AM
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I am so happy, that YOU are happy, that you sent a problem at the lowest level of difficulty in the sport. You are obviously a natural. Good job n00b.


sungam


Oct 2, 2011, 1:49 PM
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cardboarddog wrote:
I am so happy, that YOU are happy, that you sent a problem at the lowest level of difficulty in the sport. You are obviously a natural. Good job n00b.
I am so happy, that YOU are happy, that you communicated at the highest level of doucheness on the net. You are obviously an asshole. Good job dumbass.


cardboarddog


Oct 2, 2011, 3:03 PM
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LOLZ Wink

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