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It takes balls to execute an innocent man
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veganclimber


Aug 30, 2011, 8:04 PM
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It takes balls to execute an innocent man
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Quote comes from here:

http://www.politico.com/...811/60593_Page2.html

In reply to:
Veterans of Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison’s unsuccessful 2010 primary challenge to Perry recalled being stunned at the way attacks bounced off the governor in a strongly conservative state gripped by tea party fever. Multiple former Hutchison advisers recalled asking a focus group about the charge that Perry may have presided over the execution of an innocent man — Cameron Todd Willingham — and got this response from a primary voter: “It takes balls to execute an innocent man.”

Turns out there is another innocent man on death row right now.

http://www.nytimes.com/....html?pagewanted=all

http://news.yahoo.com/...t-man-153945525.html

Cliff Notes version:

College girl goes missing.

Police, when trying to trace her last know movements, find that she was talking to somebody she know with a criminal history.

So they look into this guy and find some circumstantial evidence, nothing that's even remotely convincing. To be fair, the guy did a really bad job of making himself look innocent. So they hold this guy in jail.

Three weeks later girls body is discovered in a forest. Guy is charged with her murder and convicted, sent to death row.

Several doctors have come out and said that there is no way this guy could have done it. She was missing for three weeks before they found her. According to the doctors, she could not have been dead for more than a week when they found her. In other words, the guy was already in prison when she was killed.

From the first article:

In reply to:
But scientists who had examined the entomological evidence noticed something else troubling about the autopsy report: Ms. Trotter’s organs were heavy and intact. Human bodies decay quickly after death; organs liquefy and disintegrate within days. In a January 2007 affidavit, Dr. James Arends, an entomologist, wrote that the autopsy report indicated Ms. Trotter died after Dec. 11 — the day Mr. Swearingen was jailed.

Defense lawyers asked at least seven doctors, including Dr. Carter, the medical examiner who conducted the initial autopsy, to examine the videos, photographs, organ tissue and microscopic evidence from Ms. Trotter’s body. Each one determined that she died while Mr. Swearingen was behind bars.

“Everything adds up to an individual who certainly has not been dead” for more than three weeks, said Dr. Lloyd White, the Tarrant County deputy medical examiner. “That’s just not possible.”

From the second one:

In reply to:
Dr. Lloyd White, a deputy medical examiner in Ft. Worth, first called into question the biological evidence in Swearingen's case back in 2007. The autopsy, which had been performed by Dr. Joye Carter, then the chief M.E. in Houston, described organs that were easily dissected and weighed. Had the body been outside for nearly a month, White told Rytting, that would not be possible. North Carolina doctor G.M. Larkin agreed: “All pathological diagnoses are based on the fact that changes in death are predictable, cumulative and irreversible,” he wrote in his findings. In this case, the “undisputed forensic evidence,” was that Trotter did not die until late December.

In late 2007, Carter recanted her trial testimony, which claimed that Trotter had likely been dead for 25 days, saying that the internal organs belied that conclusion. Why she didn't grasp the import of those findings in 2000 is unclear; Carter did not return calls requesting comment.

Then, in 2009, Rytting got access to the histological evidence Carter preserved in 1999, but which had never been made available to the defense for some reason. Analysis of those tissues, done with a high-powered microscope used in marine biology studies, were performed last year and again in June. The results have caused doctors to further shorten their timeline for Trotter's death: Now, they say, it is likely that Trotter was only dead two or three days before being left in the forest—weeks after Swearingen was behind bars. “[T]he way biological tissue reacts [during decomposition],” says Dr. Stephen Pustilnik, the medical examiner for Galveston County, Texas who has also reviewed the evidence, “there's no doubt about it. Period. End of story.” With the tissues under the microscope “looking as good as they do,” he concluded, “it's incontrovertible.”

What the hell is wrong with the legal system in this country? There is simply no way this guy could have done it. The courts seem incapable of understanding the science here.

In reply to:
In a November 2009 court ruling, Melinda Harmon, a judge in the United States District Court, wrote that Mr. Swearingen should have discovered and presented the forensic evidence years earlier. But she did not only deny his plea based on procedure; Ms. Harmon wrote that the scientists’ reports were not credible because they each reviewed different kinds of evidence. Some looked at microscopic tissue samples, some examined photos and video, and others looked at bugs. “This is not a case where Mr. Swearingen’s evidence is so compelling that a court cannot have confidence in the outcome of his trial,” she wrote.

Different scientists, using different methods, come to results that are consistent with each other. Somehow, that means the results are not reliable? How does somebody this stupid become a judge? It's not like the district attorney is any better.

In reply to:
Bill Delmore, the Montgomery County assistant district attorney who is now leading the state’s case against Mr. Swearingen, dismisses the litany of expert opinions. He is confident that the state’s case remains strong. “It is very frustrating to have to deal with this constant barrage of differing expert opinions that I often don’t understand,” he said.

In reply to:
Still unclear is whether the Texas courts or its prosecutors will understand, and accept, this basic biology lesson. William Delmore, the affable assistant D.A. in Montgomery County, a veteran Texas prosecutor, is unconvinced. “The science is mystifying to me,” he recently said. In fact, he's concerned that maybe “more is being made of it than we should actually give credit for.”

If I ever make a trip out west, I don't care if it takes me hours out of the way, I'm avoiding Texas.


blondgecko
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Aug 30, 2011, 9:02 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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Y'know, there's an alternate "twist" ending to Idiocracy. Turns out he wasn't actually in suspension for 800 years - he was just shipped off to a garbage dump in Texas, and was only out for a couple of months. Makes the whole movie much more believable.

Seriously though - that's all kinds of fucked up.


traddad


Aug 31, 2011, 6:20 AM
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Re: [blondgecko] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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"I'd rather execute a hundred innocent people, than let one murderer go free."


hugepedro


Aug 31, 2011, 8:08 AM
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Re: [veganclimber] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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What's wrong with killing an innocent man? Jesus was innocent, so I'd say God likes it when we execute an innocent every once in a while. And you know, according to Rick Perry, in Texas they teach both science and non-science, and you get to decide. Sometimes science is just too dang complicated for any reasonable person to think it's legitimate. I'm sure God will tell those prosecutors and judges the right thing to do.


traddad


Aug 31, 2011, 8:37 AM
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Re: [hugepedro] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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hugepedro wrote:
What's wrong with killing an innocent man? Jesus was innocent, so I'd say God likes it when we execute an innocent every once in a while. And you know, according to Rick Perry, in Texas they teach both science and non-science, and you get to decide. Sometimes science is just too dang complicated for any reasonable person to think it's legitimate. I'm sure God will tell those prosecutors and judges the right thing to do.

If innocent Christians are executed they go to heaven. See? Win Win! Think of it as a helping hand.


veganclimber


Aug 31, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Re: [traddad] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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It looks like Perry did one good thing.

http://news.yahoo.com/...roved-170245980.html

In reply to:
Americans will be able to drive faster in Texas than any other state in the nation. Approved in April as part of a state transportation bill, the Texas legislature raised the maximum state speed limit to 85 miles per hour.

If you are forced to drive through the state, at least you can get through it as quickly as possible.


saint_john


Aug 31, 2011, 1:19 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
It looks like Perry did one good thing.

http://news.yahoo.com/...roved-170245980.html

In reply to:
Americans will be able to drive faster in Texas than any other state in the nation. Approved in April as part of a state transportation bill, the Texas legislature raised the maximum state speed limit to 85 miles per hour.

If you are forced to drive through the state, at least you can get through it as quickly as possible.

lol!


styndall


Aug 31, 2011, 3:29 PM
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Re: [veganclimber] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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veganclimber wrote:
It looks like Perry did one good thing.

http://news.yahoo.com/...roved-170245980.html

In reply to:
Americans will be able to drive faster in Texas than any other state in the nation. Approved in April as part of a state transportation bill, the Texas legislature raised the maximum state speed limit to 85 miles per hour.

If you are forced to drive through the state, at least you can get through it as quickly as possible.

If it's like the current system, the speed limit will drop drastically at night. It was aggravating when my friend got a ticket in my car just after sunset coming back from Hueco Tanks a few years back.


potreroed


Sep 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Re: [traddad] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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traddad wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
What's wrong with killing an innocent man? Jesus was innocent, so I'd say God likes it when we execute an innocent every once in a while. And you know, according to Rick Perry, in Texas they teach both science and non-science, and you get to decide. Sometimes science is just too dang complicated for any reasonable person to think it's legitimate. I'm sure God will tell those prosecutors and judges the right thing to do.

If innocent Christians are executed they go to heaven. See? Win Win! Think of it as a helping hand.

What makes you think anyone goes to heaven? The bible says that when you die, you're dead, and you'll stay that way until the great resurrection.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 25, 2011, 11:38 AM
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Re: [potreroed] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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potreroed wrote:
traddad wrote:
hugepedro wrote:
What's wrong with killing an innocent man? Jesus was innocent, so I'd say God likes it when we execute an innocent every once in a while. And you know, according to Rick Perry, in Texas they teach both science and non-science, and you get to decide. Sometimes science is just too dang complicated for any reasonable person to think it's legitimate. I'm sure God will tell those prosecutors and judges the right thing to do.

If innocent Christians are executed they go to heaven. See? Win Win! Think of it as a helping hand.

What makes you think anyone goes to heaven? The bible says that when you die, you're dead, and you'll stay that way until the great resurrection.


Stop raining on the RNJ's parade... They don't care what it says, as much as what they think it says, without having to actually study it. That's why they most often let others tell them what it says, or how to [mis]interpret it.


Don't kill fetuses, but kill criminals.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 25, 2011, 11:39 AM)


possum2082


Sep 28, 2011, 8:01 AM
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Re: [rrrADAM] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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i'm with you, adam. how can christians talk about the sanctity of life for the unborn when not honoring the living.

i turned against the death penalty after my big sister did a report in high school about how many people killed had been found innocent after the fact.

after all, didn't abraham plead with god to spare sodom for the sake of 10 innocent men?


cmagee1


Sep 29, 2011, 12:30 PM
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Re: [possum2082] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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The death penalty is utter bullshit, especially from a Christian standpoint. It clearly states in the Bible that the only one with power over life and death is God.


Partner rrrADAM


Sep 29, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Re: [possum2082] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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possum2082 wrote:
...didn't abraham plead with god to spare sodom for the sake of 10 innocent men?

God likes to kill people, much more so than does Satan,:



And this is just as per the Bible, so that's only as of 2,000 years ago.


And, he doesn't really care if they are innocent or not... He just likes to kill to make a point.

If you think about it... There were lots of infants who were killed by God during the Great Flood and Sodom (if one were to believe that those events took place), and being just infants, hadn't had any time to sin yet.


(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Sep 29, 2011, 12:52 PM)


camhead


Sep 29, 2011, 1:14 PM
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Re: [rrrADAM] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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rrrADAM wrote:

If you think about it... There were lots of infants who were killed by God during the Great Flood and Sodom (if one were to believe that those events took place), and being just infants, hadn't had any time to sin yet.

Clearly you are deficient on Christian theology. Those babies were born into a state of sin brought on by Adam. Selfish, judgemental, non-believing... babies are assholes. Puritans knew this, and would frequently tie toddlers' knees to their chests and kick them around the room to "break" their devilish spirits.

Little imps, they are.




hugepedro


Sep 29, 2011, 3:50 PM
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Re: [camhead] It takes balls to execute an innocent man [In reply to]
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camhead wrote:
rrrADAM wrote:

If you think about it... There were lots of infants who were killed by God during the Great Flood and Sodom (if one were to believe that those events took place), and being just infants, hadn't had any time to sin yet.

Clearly you are deficient on Christian theology. Those babies were born into a state of sin brought on by Adam. Selfish, judgemental, non-believing... babies are assholes. Puritans knew this, and would frequently tie toddlers' knees to their chests and kick them around the room to "break" their devilish spirits.

Little imps, they are.

[image]http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/062010/angrybaby-12.jpg[/image]

Is that Rush Limbaugh?


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