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MXRider217


Sep 7, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Basic Tie-in methods
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I'm relatively new to climbing and was wondering if anyone had a different style of tying in. I know the basic figure 8 through the two loops already. Thanks!


jeepnphreak


Sep 7, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Re: [MXRider217] Basic Tie-in methods [In reply to]
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Fig 8 is the standard these days. if you have to ask than stick with a figure 8

a bowline is the next most used if wish. but has a reputation of loosning if not tied correctly


And now ways that are not recomended that I have seen morons do! and please dont try to tie in with the following, itis just a FYI of ways I have whitnesed people doing dumb things.


-water knot (not the worst of the list; but wicked hard to untie after a fall I would imagine)

-tripple fishermans then a biner to the harness.
-alpine butterlfy (great for alpine climbing but not the sharp end of the rope)
-fig 8 as a slip knot secured by a biner


coastal_climber


Sep 7, 2011, 1:19 PM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Basic Tie-in methods [In reply to]
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And ALWAYS tie into your "tie-in-points" as recommended by all harness manufacturers. Hardware only on your belay loop.


MXRider217


Sep 7, 2011, 1:30 PM
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Ok thanks. I was just open to new methods. But I guess I was on the right track!


sungam


Sep 7, 2011, 2:00 PM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Basic Tie-in methods [In reply to]
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Don't forget the Trident Loop! Tongue


DougMartin


Sep 7, 2011, 2:39 PM
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MXRider217 wrote:
I'm relatively new to climbing and was wondering if anyone had a different style of tying in. I know the basic figure 8 through the two loops already. Thanks!

The Figure 8 is the most preferred method hands down! Some old timers still use the double bowline. If you want to avoid people looking at you and saying "your gonna die" use the figure 8!


shockabuku


Sep 7, 2011, 8:11 PM
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There are versions of the bowline that work fine provided you tie them right (key to most knots). The bowline may be more problematic to get, and keep, right.


DougMartin


Sep 7, 2011, 8:53 PM
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shockabuku wrote:
There are versions of the bowline that work fine provided you tie them right (key to most knots). The bowline may be more problematic to get, and keep, right.

"May be more problematic" or does "is more problematic" tell the story better!


bearbreeder


Sep 7, 2011, 8:54 PM
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yr new ... use the fig 8 ... dont worry about any other fancy knots or finishes ... just stick to the basics

after youve climbed for awhile, then decide if you want to change

you WANT someone to check yr knot if yr a beginner ... and chances are they can only check a fig 8 anyways

dont be one of those newbies who ties fancy knots just to be different or look cool Tongue


dan2see


Sep 7, 2011, 10:20 PM
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Repeat after me ...

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

There's pictures and words:

About.com



qwert


Sep 8, 2011, 1:16 AM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Basic Tie-in methods [In reply to]
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jeepnphreak wrote:
Fig 8 is the standard these days. if you have to ask than stick with a figure 8
Yes

In reply to:
a bowline is the next most used if wish. but has a reputation of loosning if not tied correctly
I might be wrong here (language barrier?!), but actually the double bowline (if my understanding/translation of the term is correct!) might as well become the new standart, since it adresses the loosening, and is easy to untie. However its -IMHO- hard to tie, so i wouldnt bother with it for the start

In reply to:
And now ways that are not recomended that I have seen morons do! and please dont try to tie in with the following, itis just a FYI of ways I have whitnesed people doing dumb things.

-water knot (not the worst of the list; but wicked hard to untie after a fall I would imagine)…
How the hell do you tie in with a water knot?
Or asked the other way: Who is dumb enough to climb on tape?

I suppose you mean the overhand. If so, that know works, but is indeed a bitch to untie.

qwert


qwert


Sep 8, 2011, 1:18 AM
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Re: [coastal_climber] Basic Tie-in methods [In reply to]
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coastal_climber wrote:
And ALWAYS tie into your "tie-in-points" as recommended by all harness manufacturers. Hardware only on your belay loop.
I dont want to start an argument here, but you might want to check if it really is still recommended. Last stuff i read is that the recommendation is changing towards the belay loop, but that might as well be europe only…
and not really of concern for a beginner.

Just make sure you dont make the mistake of tieing into only one tie in point!

qwert


qwert


Sep 8, 2011, 1:20 AM
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dan2see wrote:
Repeat after me ...

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

There's pictures and words:

About.com
Repeat after me ...

The image above does not show a correct figure 8.

The image above does not show a correct figure 8.

The image above does not show a correct figure 8.

The image above does not show a correct figure 8.

and so on.

Dan, you might want to change that pic to a correct one of a full knot, or post a complete "tying series".

qwert


JimTitt


Sep 8, 2011, 3:44 AM
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You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).

And before some moron posts another photo of Sharma tied-on with an 8 as an example of how the top guys do it they should look at what Adam Ondra uses, a single bowline with a stopper.

Jim


qwert


Sep 8, 2011, 3:59 AM
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JimTitt wrote:
You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).
I never heard "one and a half".
Maybe you know if i am speaking of the same knot:
"Doppelter Bulin" (~"doppelter Palstek") = ?? bowline.

qwert


sp115


Sep 8, 2011, 4:50 AM
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qwert wrote:
JimTitt wrote:
You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).
I never heard "one and a half".
Maybe you know if i am speaking of the same knot:
"Doppelter Bulin" (~"doppelter Palstek") = ?? bowline.

qwert

Perhaps you mean this knot?

Re-threaded bowline, is what I've heard it called. It's what I use, and when it comes to bowlines and redundancy, it's a great knot.

A double bowline BTW is a different knot. It has a second pass around the standing end and a single pass through the tie-in points. I personally feel less comfortable with it, but with a proper finish it is safe and often used.


Photo credit:http://www.mountainproject.com/...dogfather//105898227


(This post was edited by sp115 on Sep 8, 2011, 5:13 AM)
Attachments: bowline rethreaded small.jpg (31.0 KB)


MarcelS


Sep 8, 2011, 5:58 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
you WANT someone to check yr knot if yr a beginner ... and chances are they can only check a fig 8 anyways
You should have those checks no matter how long you've been climbing.


shockabuku


Sep 8, 2011, 6:06 AM
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DougMartin wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
There are versions of the bowline that work fine provided you tie them right (key to most knots). The bowline may be more problematic to get, and keep, right.

"May be more problematic" or does "is more problematic" tell the story better!

I personally don't think it's any more difficult to tie but I used to use the bowline a lot for other purposes so am pretty familiar with it. My personal assessment (more anecdotal than scientific) is that it inherently comes loose more easily than an eight. But I think that's also it's most desirable aspect - it's easier to untie after it's been loaded.


gunkiemike


Sep 8, 2011, 2:14 PM
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dan2see wrote:
Repeat after me ...

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

I always tie in with a figure-8 through both tie-in points on my harness.

...snip...

I think the other side of this is even more important, and more frequently "disobeyed":

I will clip my locking biner only to the belay loop

As opposed to clipping it where the rope goes i.e. thru the two hard points. There is no harness manuf. AFAIK that instructs bypassing the belay loop in that fashion. 3-way loading and all that.

But I still see folks doing it at the crags.


dan2see


Sep 8, 2011, 2:45 PM
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This week-end I'm taking a couple of utter beginners to the crags. There's a slab area for top-rope only, so they won't need any instructions on how to climb. They don't even know how to tie any kind of knot, and they don't know about locking biners.

Pray for me Crazy

Or maybe them Shocked


JimTitt


Sep 8, 2011, 11:39 PM
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sp115 wrote:
qwert wrote:
JimTitt wrote:
You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).
I never heard "one and a half".
Maybe you know if i am speaking of the same knot:
"Doppelter Bulin" (~"doppelter Palstek") = ?? bowline.

qwert

Perhaps you mean this knot? [image]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/85/57/107268557_large_662dd2.jpg[/image]

Re-threaded bowline, is what I've heard it called. It's what I use, and when it comes to bowlines and redundancy, it's a great knot.

A double bowline BTW is a different knot. It has a second pass around the standing end and a single pass through the tie-in points. I personally feel less comfortable with it, but with a proper finish it is safe and often used.


Photo credit:http://www.mountainproject.com/...dogfather//105898227

Yep, that´s the one. The Germans tend to call it the double bowline which it isn´t so it gets called the 1 1/2 instead (sometimes). Like you say the version you describe seems a bit pointless and I use the 1 1/2 as well (without the stopper knot).


binrat


Sep 9, 2011, 6:24 AM
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How is the 1 1/2 BL for undoing after being weighted??


shockabuku


Sep 9, 2011, 7:12 AM
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sp115 wrote:
qwert wrote:
JimTitt wrote:
You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).
I never heard "one and a half".
Maybe you know if i am speaking of the same knot:
"Doppelter Bulin" (~"doppelter Palstek") = ?? bowline.

qwert

Perhaps you mean this knot?

Re-threaded bowline, is what I've heard it called. It's what I use, and when it comes to bowlines and redundancy, it's a great knot.

A double bowline BTW is a different knot. It has a second pass around the standing end and a single pass through the tie-in points. I personally feel less comfortable with it, but with a proper finish it is safe and often used.


Photo credit:http://www.mountainproject.com/...dogfather//105898227

This is the same knot as a bowline on a bight but in order to tie it on to your tie in points it has to be tied as a rethread.


JimTitt


Sep 9, 2011, 8:22 AM
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Easier to untie than a single bowline I think (hard to tell really). Apart from not needing a stopper knot the other claimed advantage is reduced wear on the tie-in points as there are two strands to share the load, no idea if this is true though!

Jim


qwert


Sep 9, 2011, 11:34 AM
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shockabuku wrote:
sp115 wrote:
qwert wrote:
JimTitt wrote:
You probably mean the "one-and-a-half" bowline as its horribly known which is the common version in German speaking countries (and what I use as well).
I never heard "one and a half".
Maybe you know if i am speaking of the same knot:
"Doppelter Bulin" (~"doppelter Palstek") = ?? bowline.

qwert

Perhaps you mean this knot? [image]http://www.mountainproject.com/images/85/57/107268557_large_662dd2.jpg[/image]

Re-threaded bowline, is what I've heard it called. It's what I use, and when it comes to bowlines and redundancy, it's a great knot.

A double bowline BTW is a different knot. It has a second pass around the standing end and a single pass through the tie-in points. I personally feel less comfortable with it, but with a proper finish it is safe and often used.


Photo credit:http://www.mountainproject.com/...dogfather//105898227

This is the same knot as a bowline on a bight but in order to tie it on to your tie in points it has to be tied as a rethread.
Yes, this is the knot i was speaking of, and yes, it has to be tied as a rethread, not unlike the figure8, or about any other tie in knot that does not involve a biner.
Its harder to tie, and harder to inspect than an 8, so for a beginner i wouldnt really suggest it, but it might become usefull to know it more sooner than later?

qwert

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