Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Sport Climbing:
unable to redpoint a lead
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Sport Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


Search4


Sep 11, 2011, 2:16 PM
Post #1 of 17 (3713 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 3, 2010
Posts: 13

unable to redpoint a lead
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm getting back into climbing after 8 month injury/travel break, still working on endurance and strength. And am trying to lead more and more. For top rope my range 10.b-c if its one of the first climbs of the day, if I'm tired its less. I can lead a 10.a if I've climbed it before, with relatively no fear. I would like to start a new route, (10.b I later found out) leading it, rather the topping it. But, when I tried yesterday I got to the 3rd bolt and came down cause I was too frightened. My partner then put up top rope, and I climbed it after a few falls.

My goal for this season is to be able to start leading a new route, being willing to fall (I definitely trust my climbing partner) while leading it.

Any tips?


MS1


Sep 11, 2011, 3:34 PM
Post #2 of 17 (3683 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 560

Re: [Search4] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Search4 wrote:
I'm getting back into climbing after 8 month injury/travel break, still working on endurance and strength. And am trying to lead more and more. For top rope my range 10.b-c if its one of the first climbs of the day, if I'm tired its less. I can lead a 10.a if I've climbed it before, with relatively no fear. I would like to start a new route, (10.b I later found out) leading it, rather the topping it. But, when I tried yesterday I got to the 3rd bolt and came down cause I was too frightened. My partner then put up top rope, and I climbed it after a few falls.

My goal for this season is to be able to start leading a new route, being willing to fall (I definitely trust my climbing partner) while leading it.

Any tips?

Assuming that the position where you backed off was safe and your fear was unwarranted, it sounds like you need to take practice falls on safe terrain until you become comfortable going for it on lead.


jeepnphreak


Sep 11, 2011, 5:07 PM
Post #3 of 17 (3657 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 1259

Re: [Search4] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sounds like its not your climbing that needs work but your head game. Read self coached climber. Take a few whippers and get use to that fact that leading is not really much different that top roping other than seeing the rope already above you vs below you.
If you can climb a route with only a fall or two on top rope that yo defiantly can climb it on lead. Some times the mental crux is the most difficult part of the climb.


tH1e-swiN1e


Sep 12, 2011, 12:33 PM
Post #4 of 17 (3557 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 28, 2011
Posts: 192

Re: [jeepnphreak] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.


blueeyedclimber


Sep 13, 2011, 7:20 AM
Post #5 of 17 (3492 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [tH1e-swiN1e] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh


USnavy


Sep 14, 2011, 4:28 AM
Post #6 of 17 (3431 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2661

Re: [blueeyedclimber] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 14, 2011, 4:29 AM)


granite_grrl


Sep 14, 2011, 4:53 AM
Post #7 of 17 (3420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14800

Re: [USnavy] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.
Have you ever seen a brand new leader? They have no idea where their body is in relation to the rope. When I climb with a new leader they are constantly getting a rope behind their leg.

Not to mention it takes some time to learn when it's safe to take a fall on various terrain. I would not recommend people falling on many of the 5.10s around here.

Frankly, everyone has to take falling at their own pace. A little bit of fear is good, but it's easy to let yourself be overloaded which makes the whole idea of going out climbing not very appealing anymore.


USnavy


Sep 14, 2011, 8:42 PM
Post #8 of 17 (3349 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 5, 2007
Posts: 2661

Re: [granite_grrl] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

granite_grrl wrote:
USnavy wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.
Have you ever seen a brand new leader? They have no idea where their body is in relation to the rope. When I climb with a new leader they are constantly getting a rope behind their leg.
I know they always have their rope behind their leg. Thats why I included those three important words in my instruction, "under expert supervision". If a beginner is serious about getting better, they are going to fall sooner or later, its only a matter of time. Thats why its important their first falls are executed under competent supervision from a senior qualified climber. I was not instructing the OP to go with his buds to a local crag and start taking whippers. I was implying he takes falls with someone qualified and competent enough to supervise and provide instruction to him, such as a guide. My ultimate point was that the best way to get over being afraid of falling is to fall.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Sep 14, 2011, 8:50 PM)


granite_grrl


Sep 15, 2011, 4:32 AM
Post #9 of 17 (3304 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 14800

Re: [USnavy] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
granite_grrl wrote:
USnavy wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.
Have you ever seen a brand new leader? They have no idea where their body is in relation to the rope. When I climb with a new leader they are constantly getting a rope behind their leg.
I know they always have their rope behind their leg. Thats why I included those three important words in my instruction, "under expert supervision". If a beginner is serious about getting better, they are going to fall sooner or later, its only a matter of time. Thats why its important their first falls are executed under competent supervision from a senior qualified climber. I was not instructing the OP to go with his buds to a local crag and start taking whippers. I was implying he takes falls with someone qualified and competent enough to supervise and provide instruction to him, such as a guide. My ultimate point was that the best way to get over being afraid of falling is to fall.
And as being someone who has walked a long road in order to be comfortable with lead falls I know you're wrong about this being the best way.

It is one way, but there are many ways and each person has to find something that works for them. Your method would have made things far harder then they already were for someone like me and you should realize that something that works for you won't work for everyone.


guangzhou


Sep 15, 2011, 4:38 AM
Post #10 of 17 (3301 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [granite_grrl] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Key words in climbing, what works for one person doesn't work for everyone.

OP: Where do yo climb?
Sport, trad, gym?
Your injury, was it climbing related?
Does your partner have a similar fear of leading?


blueeyedclimber


Sep 15, 2011, 5:13 AM
Post #11 of 17 (3296 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 4602

Re: [USnavy] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.

All that may be true, but it is not your decision. You can't force someone to have a good lead head and to not be scared. You can give suggestions to them, but if you refuse to do what your climber has asked, then you are a jerk. Plain and simple.

Josh


jeepnphreak


Sep 19, 2011, 12:55 PM
Post #12 of 17 (3138 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 28, 2008
Posts: 1259

Re: [blueeyedclimber] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh


I disgree, your partner is an asshole. hes not up there leading. IF a take is nessary and a good reason, give the climber a take. I recall several time on lead getting a finger jambed in a hold/crack (even at the gym) and slipping. I will call a take so I dont break a finger. I saw one kid at he gym feet pop off and seperate a shoulder and call a take. Pull shit like that, one day you will hurt your climbing partner.its the gym not old school ethics, your ar there to learn and have fun. so dont be a D-bag.


Player


Sep 19, 2011, 5:48 PM
Post #13 of 17 (3118 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 29, 2011
Posts: 56

Re: [Search4] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Search4 wrote:
I'm getting back into climbing after 8 month injury/travel break, still working on endurance and strength. And am trying to lead more and more. For top rope my range 10.b-c if its one of the first climbs of the day, if I'm tired its less. I can lead a 10.a if I've climbed it before, with relatively no fear. I would like to start a new route, (10.b I later found out) leading it, rather the topping it. But, when I tried yesterday I got to the 3rd bolt and came down cause I was too frightened. My partner then put up top rope, and I climbed it after a few falls.

My goal for this season is to be able to start leading a new route, being willing to fall (I definitely trust my climbing partner) while leading it.

Any tips?

Has it always been this way, or did you just start getting scared from something you saw/happened/read about? Being able to fully trust your climbing partner means you already have half the work done. Work on that other half now.

I had a pretty serious lead accident last year and it took me some practice to get over. Basically I read everything I could about lead safety, and when I started leading again I focused more on safety then getting to the top. After really focusing on this for a few gym sessions, I was really able to break most of the fear I had. I also took a couple (2 or 4??) practice falls.

I would really recommend just forgetting about getting to the top and focus on safety. Watch every clip, make sure you don't back clip. You need to keep the rope between you and the rock. Watch the rope and how it moves with your body. When you get some nice juggy holds, try moving your legs up in a couple of different sequences and see how the rope reacts. Once you become aware of whether a fall is safe or dangerous, react accordingly. If the fall is dangerous, have yourself a take and shake out before going on, or even abandon the route. But when you know the fall is safe you better damn well keep pushing yourself up that wall.


shockabuku


Sep 19, 2011, 7:17 PM
Post #14 of 17 (3088 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4860

Re: [USnavy] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

USnavy wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe, but he does have a point. I cant tell you how many beginners I see say take on every bolt. Calling take is extremely damaging to a beginner's learning curve. We are afraid of what we are unfamiliar with. In the case of leading, climbing into the zone that's close to one's limit where they may fall can be scary at first. Its scary because they have no experience doing it. Its easy to call take to rest on a bolt to avoid pushing into the unknown. But if you do that all the time, you're never going to learn anything, you're never going to gain additional experience and I would not expect yourself to make much real progress. If you want to make progress, push yourself under expert supervision on a route with clean falls. Push your limits and fall. Do that on a regular basis and falling and leading at your limit will become second nature. You will be use to it and you will obtain the solid lead head you are seeking.

There's only one leader at a time. When the leader says take, the belayer should take unless there's been a previous agreement not to which, in my opinion, is a stupid way to approach a dangerous endeavor. I would otherwise find a new partner. In the long run, how much you enjoy climbing is a lot more important than how hard you climb or how fast you progress and for most people being pushed into a zone of fear doesn't equate to a positive experience.


ilikepargo


Oct 6, 2011, 9:48 PM
Post #15 of 17 (2840 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2008
Posts: 133

Re: [blueeyedclimber] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

blueeyedclimber wrote:
tH1e-swiN1e wrote:
Leading is all a mental game man. Practice some safe falls inside. Once you trust in it the fear goes away, and later becomes a reward.

My partner doesnt allow me to take inside, and if I ask for it I get another arm full of slack lol.

Your partner's a jerk.

Josh
Maybe. Or maybe not. I wouldn't have enough information to judge.

But either way, your comment was teh funny! LOLzz!


Search4


Oct 6, 2011, 11:43 PM
Post #16 of 17 (2828 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 3, 2010
Posts: 13

Re: [ilikepargo] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

OP: Where do yo climb?
Sport, trad, gym?
Your injury, was it climbing related?
Does your partner have a similar fear of leading?

I climb mostly outside, sport crags on the weekends and then an plastic a time or 2 during the week. A few weeks ago I did do some controlled practice lead falls on plastic, which did help my confidence.


My injury was breaking my elbow by bouldering at a gym(one of the freak accidents that just shouldn't have happened)

My partner's been climbing for 5+ years and doesn't have fear leading. I'm an 5.10a/b lead climber, he's a 12b/c lead sport and some what lower on trad.

I went out last week and redpointed a few climbs levels 5.9 and 10b. I was pretty shaky, took a few times at the beginning. But so far so good. That was at my fav local crag. This weekend we are going to a new crag for me, so I'm looking forward to seeing new rock.


ilikepargo


Oct 7, 2011, 9:33 PM
Post #17 of 17 (2743 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2008
Posts: 133

Re: [Search4] unable to redpoint a lead [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Sounds as though you're working through it.

I've never really had the same problem. I broke my foot in a lead-fall a couple of years back, but that didn't damage my lead-head. I do dislike gym bouldering problems with the crux up high. After all, there's no rope. But once I'm tied in, I'm usually good.

I have known people who play the game that your partner plays on you, as long as it's in the gym and high enough off the deck that the climber won't splat. I think there can be benefit in that, IF the relationship between partners allows for it. You drive each other to be aggressive. After all, the problem really is mental.

That said, I'm still laughing at Josh's comment. Maybe just 'cause I didn't expect it. But it got me. Cool


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Sport Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$17.95 (10% off)
$215.06 (10% off)
$120.02 (10% off)
$17.95 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook