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hugepedro
Sep 19, 2011, 8:15 PM
Post #26 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: Do you tie in when you rappel? I rappel with a rescue 8 or an atc so no.
Right. And just like you don't tie in when rappeling, you also don't tie in when jugging a line. Get it?
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jae8908
Sep 19, 2011, 8:17 PM
Post #27 of 40
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jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy.
While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way.
(edit) I would have tied in and used the belay loop to pull on the bolts. Definitely not have worn two harnesses.
(This post was edited by jae8908 on Sep 19, 2011, 8:19 PM)
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hugepedro
Sep 19, 2011, 8:21 PM
Post #28 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way.
Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling.
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jae8908
Sep 19, 2011, 8:23 PM
Post #29 of 40
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hugepedro wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way. Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling.
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kennoyce
Sep 19, 2011, 8:24 PM
Post #30 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: kennoyce wrote: jae8908 wrote: sbaclimber wrote: jae8908 wrote: I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. At the risk of implying you are a hypocrite......what are the guys in the vid doing any differently!? 1. They aren't in a gym. 2. They are suspending themselves with the belay loop while jerking on it trying to pull the bolts out. 3. Responding to you quoting me, when I top rope in a gym I clip my carabiner through both the leg straps and waist strap on my harness. This is certainly less safe than clipping the biner to your belay loop because it loads the biner incorrectly. how is it loaded wrong if it is along the median plane instead of the frontal plane? I don't understand how this would even make a difference.
A biner is designed to be loaded along its major axis. By clipping to a belay loop you are loading the biner correctly. If you clip to your tie-in points, you now have 3 forces being applied to the biner, one at each tie-in point, and one where the rope is connected to the biner. Biners are not designed for, or rated for this type of loading. A belay loop on the other hand is designed to take the force of a fall and is in fact redundant (look closely and you'll see that it is two loops of webbing sown together).
Please just follow what the harness manufacturers recommend and clip biners to the belay loop, and use the tie-in points for soft goods.
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sbaclimber
Sep 19, 2011, 8:25 PM
Post #31 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: hugepedro wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way. Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling. No, the reason you don't tie in when rappelling is because there is not a way to rappel while tied in.  
edit, 'cause one just wasn't enough...
(This post was edited by sbaclimber on Sep 19, 2011, 8:26 PM)
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jeepnphreak
Sep 19, 2011, 8:28 PM
Post #32 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: . Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway.
But you are missing the reason why I posted this vid in the first place. The OP wants to bolt up some crappy MD rock and wants to protct him self. I was trying to show that selecting the wrong bolt can be very dangerous. And thus needs to gain alot more info and experience befroe grabing a bolting kit and slappig a few bolts in.
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hugepedro
Sep 19, 2011, 8:28 PM
Post #33 of 40
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jae8908 wrote: hugepedro wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way. Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling. No, the reason you don't tie in when rappelling is because there is not a way to rappel while tied in.
Ok, I get it, you have never ascended a rope in your life. That's ok, but I'd recommend listening instead of arguing if you want to learn something.
Nor is there a way to tie in when ascending a line. Or rather, you could tie in, but as soon as you start ascending your tie in would be completely worthless to you.
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kennoyce
Sep 19, 2011, 8:29 PM
Post #34 of 40
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Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1338
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jae8908 wrote: hugepedro wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way. Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling. No, the reason you don't tie in when rappelling is because there is not a way to rappel while tied in.
Now think of Jugging as the exact opposite of rapping and you might start to get it (although with the amount of intelligence you've shown so far on this thread, I kind of doubt it).
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j_ung
Sep 19, 2011, 8:52 PM
Post #35 of 40
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Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
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jae8908 wrote: hugepedro wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: jae8908 wrote: jeepnphreak wrote: "jae8908 wrote: The guys in this video are anchoring off of the belay loop on their harness. Why? Are you implying that belay loops are not ment to hold body weight? No, I'm implying that the belay loop and carabiner are an extra variable to go wrong. I learned to eliminate as many variables as possible when my life is at risk. I tie into my harness unless top roping in a gym. ha so you climb with two harnesses, and two ropes with two belay devices and you use two quick draws on each bolt... These guys are suspended from an above anchor and using accenders to make upward progression. Anchoring from a bely loop is just fine. Besides your trust your belay loop to catch a 25 foot whipper...no? Sitting on the belay loop is fine. you trust one piece of webbing to hold your carabiners together in a quick draw... If you listen to the commentary the bolts are pulling at about 80 lbs (40 kilos) of force, well less than half the wiehgt of a grown guy. While I understand all of this and have thought it through before I started posting, I don't understand why anyone would want another variable that could go wrong. Wasn't safety the topic of this thread anyway. I'm not arguing about it. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I just wouldn't have done it their way. Dude, Brohan, how many times does it have to be said before you get this? They aren't tied into the rope at all because they are using ascenders to jug it. Just like you don't tie in when you're rappeling. No, the reason you don't tie in when rappelling is because there is not a way to rappel while tied in.
jae8908, you should read the instructions that come with your harness.
(This post was edited by j_ung on Sep 19, 2011, 8:53 PM)
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Kartessa
Sep 19, 2011, 9:17 PM
Post #36 of 40
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Posts: 7362
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Marylandclimber wrote: Omg your so mean i'm on this site trying to learmn and save my life. Your obviously here to just yell at people that just started climbing.
omg this is so funny
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Kartessa
Sep 19, 2011, 9:30 PM
Post #37 of 40
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as I read on, this whole thread is frikkin hilarious!
Troll on amigos!
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tolman_paul
Sep 19, 2011, 9:51 PM
Post #38 of 40
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Posts: 385
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You can lead misc short routes without bolting. Get a length of static line, place an alpine butterfly knot ever 6', anchor it to the top of the route, hang it over the edget to the ground.
You can clip the loops on lead, same experience as clipping bolts, but it's re-usable, you won't tick people off by bolting their rocks, and you don't have to learn how to bolt.
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Kartessa
Sep 19, 2011, 9:55 PM
Post #39 of 40
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tolman_paul wrote: You can lead misc short routes without bolting. Get a length of static line, place an alpine butterfly knot ever 6', anchor it to the top of the route, hang it over the edget to the ground. You can clip the loops on lead, same experience as clipping bolts, but it's re-usable, you won't tick people off by bolting their rocks, and you don't have to learn how to bolt.
Shit, thats almost clever... I really want to like this idea but I know that some jackass is going to chime in with some YGDs...
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billcoe_
Sep 19, 2011, 10:53 PM
Post #40 of 40
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Not at all Kartessa, I've done it a lot when you show up and the partner doesn't and I want to TR something but don't have a gri-gri or solo stuff, I use figure 8's though. The Butterfly would be better to fall on.
YNGD at all, if you tie off the top so it's fixed and there is a double line, you rap on a single line and you can put the knots in the other rope at exact spots where you need them. Every 2 feet if you choose.
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