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rtsteed
Oct 18, 2011, 4:41 AM
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When on a run out or you know that the placements below you are sketch, how you to keep yourself calm and collected? I tend to get all sketched out easily when things go down the drain. Is it as easy as just remembering to breath and take a second to collect myself?
Everything I climb is a single pitches and I am afraid that I will deck if I blow a piece of pro.
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rtwilli4
Oct 18, 2011, 5:04 AM
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Google "Arno Ilgner"
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billl7
Oct 18, 2011, 12:54 PM
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rtsteed wrote: When on a run out or you know that the placements below you are sketch, how you to keep yourself calm and collected? I tend to get all sketched out easily when things go down the drain. Is it as easy as just remembering to breath and take a second to collect myself?
Maybe things you already know ...
I think the first helpful thing is to realize that not all routes are for a given individual at a given point in time. Seems obvious; at the same time, it's not always clear where the line lies.
Second is to become comfortable and experienced with climbing up above gear to explore and downclimbing to get back to a resting point. This takes developing some competence with assessment of the upcoming terrain and practice with downclimbing.
Third is to be willing to leave gear to bail.
The clearer it is to you that you have the above options, the less sketched you will feel. Granted, this may not be the "rock warrier" way as am not super familiar with that book. Mostly, it's what I interpret from my experience which includes a come back from a badly broken ankle due to a lead fall.
Bill L
(This post was edited by billl7 on Oct 18, 2011, 12:55 PM)
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camhead
Oct 18, 2011, 1:04 PM
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If you are truly in a position in which gear would blow and you would deck, then you need to work on your head game. breathe, talk to yourself, banish elvis from the vicinity, blablabla.
But, more important, you need to learn for yourself whether your fear of gear blowing is rational or not. I have noticed that almost everyone tends to think that gear is worse than it actually is. Get comfortable with what holds and what doesn't, maybe even take some practice falls (though I've personally never been a huge fan of that idea). Most importantly, find routes that require you to do moves that are hard for you above bomber gear.
If you work on both of these elements, then eventually you will move on to climbing harder moves above worse gear, but take it slow.
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bearbreeder
Oct 19, 2011, 3:36 AM
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climb more ... TR, easier leads, less sketchy leads
but at the end of the day ... climb more
its that simple ...
and no it doesnt get that much better ... once you become a better climber you may not get elvis legs on 5.8s anymore ... but you may well get them at your limit still
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ablanchard17
Oct 19, 2011, 7:42 PM
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Some of those fears are well placed. It is very well possible to deck on a single pitch with just a single piece blown. When you get to a spot where you are sketched you can do a few things.
1) climb down
2) keep climbing
3) stay there and keep panicking
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ceebo
Oct 19, 2011, 8:55 PM
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I completely fucked up a few month back and got myself into a ridicules situation. I started what was suppose to be a hvs. Half way up i made a very stupid change to the route and decided to go direct on rock that looked more interesting and played to my strength ( i got tired of being scared and went for it). Problem was that their was only 1 placement at that point and i then had to run out to the top for 4M. The rock turned out to be sketchy.. flaky and sandy. It was not that solid and i feared allot for hold brakes. Backing off did not seem like a good call since the down climbing would have been very tricky given that the up climbing involved some dedicated 3 finger single pad open hand moves. The section was not that difficult, maybe 5a British. The top out however, unknown to me before hand was a ridicules sloped very balancy 2 hand mantle around 5c kinda move. Not incredibly difficult but with a 4 and a half metre run out that would take me 1M off the ground in static terms, it was highly likely i would have decked out given the dynamics. I knew that and tbh time stood still. It was to much of a fucked up situation that i guess my mind did not allow panic to kick in. Their was nothing else i could do other than try not to fall. The route i took was not listed and probably for good reason given the condition of the rock and the tricky top out. Not in a bragging manner.. but i went from what should have been a hvs.. to what became a E4 at best. That knocked me down a few pegs because i was not in the slightest prepared for it.
The knowledge of knowing my partner had practiced running belay would have helped allot.. but it is not something we had prepared for at that point. More examples of bad prep. If i had of fallen maybe he would have reacted fast enough.. who knows.
This was a strong lesson to stay away from on sight trad on anything but easy well protected climbing. I don't think however that i will ever go for hard on sights.
My attention now is on working E6's on tr before sends on gear. The climbing is harder true, but the unkowns are eliminated. I don't like unkowns.. and i will never force myself to take them on again.
Anyway, hope this helps in some way.
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vencido
Oct 19, 2011, 11:24 PM
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Step back an classify your fears into one of two categories.
1: Yes, I should have a healthy fear of this situation because there is real danger here.
2: No, I should not be afraid. My gear is good, the fall is clean, or I am strong enough to climb through this if it is not. It is irrational for me to be really scared.
If its a category 2 situation, pretend you're outside looking at yourself climbing. You see that things are OK and you can continue.
If its a category 1 situation, do the same, but when you are done figure out what you did wrong or where your weakness is that let you find yourself in a dangerous place.
You probably don't have the experience to say if your pro is good. You don't have much experience falling so you don't know if that is safe or not. Or you simply weren't skilled or strong enough to overcome the difficulties comfortably. Practice those things that are your deficits.
Also before I get to that spot where I am really uncomfortable, I like to take a deep breath and blow out hard with pursed lips. Doing this a couple times can really calm me.
Oh, and climb more.
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jacques
Oct 20, 2011, 12:16 AM
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rtsteed wrote: When on a run out or you know that the placements below you are sketch, how you to keep yourself calm and collected?
This is what they name anormal comportment. it is not a person with mental problem, but a response to some one to a stress different than his normal comportment. We each have two or three anormal comportment which are stimulated by a stress. For example, some people panic and charge whatever happen. Other stay there. there is six anormal comportment and you have to find/stimulate the one more adapted for climbing.
Ignoring the danger so you are not going to be stress is not your question I think.
Climbing a route on top rope (rappeling on a route) and on lead after is a way to eliminate the stress of not knowing what we are going to find above. As you know the route, you are not stress.
climbing a bolt route lower the stress too.
Other way, you have to understand why you are not in danger and get confidence on yourself. Knowing the distance you can climb and jump without injury is a skill hard to learn and today many people take the easy way. To have a good knowledge of your capacity physical and gestual and to be honest with you. Every body climb higher grade on bolt or top rope...that's not means that you have the same level in climbing.
Stress reaction can began two or three days or week before the climb and take many aspect. If you find information associate with climbing, can you sent me the link.
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JAB
Oct 20, 2011, 12:19 PM
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For me, the simple "climb more" helped a lot. Earlier, I had the same problem as you, and even once had to be "rescued" from a ledge (i.e. a guy walked around to the top of the huge 45 feet crag and lowered a toprope) since I didn't dare to make the final, unprotectable, moves to the top and neither did I dare to downclimb.
With more mileage, you learn to identify positions where there is 0%* risk of you falling. Especially on trad routes, where you often find yourself on slabby or at the most vertical terrain, I can feel totally confident that I could hang around for hours in this position. This gives you confidence to relax, let the pump fade away and let your breathing return to normal. As you start feeling calm, you can without hurry look for the next placement, and how to reach it. Maybe place a piece.
* of course I understand that there is no thing as 0% risk, but the point is that I still feel that way, which means I can shake out and plan ahead instead of panicking
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jacques
Oct 20, 2011, 12:51 PM
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JAB wrote: With more mileage, you learn to identify positions where there is 0%* risk of you falling. Especially on trad routes, where you often find yourself on slabby or at the most vertical terrain, I can feel totally confident that I could hang around for hours in this position.
I think that the problem he have is when you commit and find yourself in a 50% risk to be injure in a fall. I went to rainbow slab and I commit the steep part in the middle of the cliff, run out on 40 feet and the top was mossy...more than wet, it was dripping and I wasn't able to stay there, nor to wait or to down climp.
I will agree with a sentence like: keep your nerve low because the best way to get out of there is to stay calm and take the good decision. I agree that to take the best decision is make simulation of those situation in low level route. so, a person learn to commit in 5.6, 5.7 where there is many solution to get out of the problem and commit to higher rate after.
In that training, bolt are not good because you have an over confidence in your pro. when you climb with nuts, you think that a nut is less safe than a bolt and you are more stress. (after a while, some trad climber will say that they are more confident in there pro than with the bolt).
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tolman_paul
Oct 20, 2011, 9:50 PM
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Another vote for you can't beat mileage.
There were plenty of times when I was starting out that I'd tuck tale and lower off or rap off. Building yourself up mentally to handle the challenges is just as important as building yourself up physically.
The other thing is that our highly subjective system of rating climbs really doesn't tell the whole picture of what's entailed. I've been on 5.8 cracks where I fealt rock solid and had no problem running it out 30' between placements. Yet I could find myself on another 5.8 10' out from a bolt facing an awkward move that required some serious committment and I'd start getting Elvis leg.
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Player
Oct 21, 2011, 1:05 AM
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Try to scout the route safety from the ground better. If you know the fall is safe, push on. It will be uncomfortable, but it gets easier.
ablanchard17 wrote: Some of those fears are well placed. It is very well possible to deck on a single pitch with just a single piece blown. When you get to a spot where you are sketched you can do a few things. 1) climb down 2) keep climbing 3) stay there and keep panicking
Really there are only 2 options
1) climb down
2) keep climbing
Get it out of your head that 3 is even an option.
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jacques
Oct 21, 2011, 2:10 PM
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Player wrote: Try to scout the route safety from the ground better.
If you are in a multipitch, you can not scout the route from the bottom, but from rest to rest.
finding a good rest place, without anging on the rope, is some time hard and the rest place can be far from the protection. Often, in hard move, I rest before I place the pro.
when I begin climbing, my biggest fear was to be trap somewhere where my only solution was to jump on my last pro. So, I found way to estimate where I should take the decision to climb down and to go on before commiting a move. old climber will no that there is underestimation some times (here is the reason of the question at the begining) but there is also commitment on huge air without too much stress. I use the fall factor, but today people don't have time to learn it.
In fact, even in mountaineering freedom of the hill, last edition, they remove all the section explaining what exactly happen during a fall. altought those explanation don't help to improve your level of climbing, it will help you to increase the level of commitment...and to climb safe. If you read on emergency intervention, they always suggest to simulate situation to be ready in real case. Many people in many site will laught at you when you bring safety in the game.
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desertdude420
Jan 16, 2012, 1:41 AM
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Just take some deep breathes. That works for me.
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crjanow
Jan 22, 2012, 6:28 PM
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rtsteed wrote: When on a run out or you know that the placements below you are sketch, how you to keep yourself calm and collected? I tend to get all sketched out easily when things go down the drain. Is it as easy as just remembering to breath and take a second to collect myself? Everything I climb is a single pitches and I am afraid that I will deck if I blow a piece of pro.
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thenose
Jan 23, 2012, 10:59 AM
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rtsteed wrote: When on a run out or you know that the placements below you are sketch, how you to keep yourself calm and collected? I tend to get all sketched out easily when things go down the drain. Is it as easy as just remembering to breath and take a second to collect myself? Everything I climb is a single pitches and I am afraid that I will deck if I blow a piece of pro.
There are a number of ideas on how to prevent yourself from getting pumped, but only one truly effective way. Climb faster.
Here is how you do it. First off you need to do two lines of speed before you start a climb. One should be laced with Everclear, the other, epinephrine. Once you get your high on you should start climbing. Its best to just free solo as to avoid having to clip draws or place gear - remember, we are going for max speed. Dont bother taking rests, the faster you go the better. Thats about it, good luck.
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anarkhos
Feb 19, 2012, 12:38 AM
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What I always tell my partners when they get gripped is to take a deep breath in through the nose and out slowly through pursed lips. When you're panicked you take quick, shallow breaths and this exercise helps regulate that.
At least for me.
Other things that help me are 1) trusting my pro 2) trusting my feet 3) whistling, singing, or humming 4) placing pro when you find a good stance, not just whenever you see a placement 5) look for those hidden rests 6) keep your heels down when you can, and your arms straight.
Have fun out there, and don't fall rigid!
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