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Toast_in_the_Machine


Oct 15, 2011, 5:55 PM
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From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF7gdlTrCQY


veganclimber


Oct 15, 2011, 9:32 PM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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An hour long, but definitely worth it.


chadnsc


Oct 17, 2011, 8:41 AM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Oct 17, 2011, 8:55 AM
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Re: [chadnsc] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Bummer, it was a good show.


petsfed


Oct 17, 2011, 9:09 AM
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Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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Chaos often results from applying exact rules to inexact situations.

Put another way, we're more or less guaranteed chaotic behavior around regions that our theories predict non-physical phenomenon. For instance, according to Newtonian mechanics, driving a pendulum at its resonance frequency quickly leads to oscillations of infinite amplitude, something that (for obvious reasons) can not actually occur. What we actually see, however, is that the traditional error analysis approach falls apart, and the difference between the theoretical and actual results dwarfs the expected uncertainty due to the measured uncertainty of our initial conditions.


I_do


Oct 17, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)


I_do


Oct 17, 2011, 12:54 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Oops, that is just a preview and they want you to download some crap movieplayer. Can I interst you in a nice bearskin of a bear I will wrestle next year?


chadnsc


Oct 17, 2011, 1:07 PM
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Re: [I_do] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue


I_do


Oct 17, 2011, 1:10 PM
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Re: [chadnsc] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue

I failed to even attach my flawed link I really am that awesome!


traddad


Oct 17, 2011, 1:19 PM
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Re: [I_do] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue

I failed to even attach my flawed link I really am that awesome!
To fail to fail.....awesome.


chadnsc


Oct 17, 2011, 1:28 PM
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
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Re: [I_do] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue

I failed to even attach my flawed link I really am that awesome!

Just keep using your powers of FAIL for good. Cool


I_do


Oct 17, 2011, 3:09 PM
Post #12 of 19 (1360 views)
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Registered: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 1232

Re: [chadnsc] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue

I failed to even attach my flawed link I really am that awesome!

Just keep using your powers of FAIL for good. Cool

Doing a phd without any results so far fail and good enough?


chadnsc


Oct 17, 2011, 6:34 PM
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 4449

Re: [I_do] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
I_do wrote:
chadnsc wrote:
"This video contains content from BBC Worldwide, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

No video for you.

Here you go little buddy, next time find it yourself ;)

Not only did you not attach a link but you did not attach the correct link.

Your FAIL is awesome to behold. Tongue

I failed to even attach my flawed link I really am that awesome!

Just keep using your powers of FAIL for good. Cool

Doing a phd without any results so far fail and good enough?

As long as that PHD is for something that will benefit humanity, like free beer and sex then yeah it's all good.


rmsusa


Oct 20, 2011, 5:08 PM
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Re: [petsfed] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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Indeed .....

and people actually wonder how come applying exact rules results in such chaos in complicated, nonlinear and autonomoss systems like ...... governments and economies.

We have a zillion simple, exact ways of making it all better, don't we all?


petsfed


Oct 20, 2011, 6:16 PM
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Re: [rmsusa] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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Mostly, we have a zillion people who believe anything that takes more than 15 seconds to explain is a lie.

Atmospheric science is deeply troubled by people who hear "chaotic" and think "in principle random". Or worse still, hear "chaos theory" and think that means that we really can predict the outcome of chaotic behavior. Chaos theory is the set of theories that are attempting to quantify the emergent behaviors that aren't really obvious from the fundamental principles. We are in a similar state in atmospheric science to a physicist who only knows quantum electrodynamics. Sure, virtually every phenomenon in the universe results from it, but typically in strange and unexpected ways.


rmsusa


Oct 22, 2011, 7:09 PM
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Re: [petsfed] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Mostly, we have a zillion people who believe anything that takes more than 15 seconds to explain is a lie.

I don't think it's quite that bad. Lie is a really strong word.

We do have about a zillion people who believe that complex systems can be shoved about predictably with application of simple inputs. Then it gets tried and everybody's suprised that things didn't turn out quite as expected.


petsfed


Oct 23, 2011, 9:42 AM
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Re: [rmsusa] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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Let me rephrase:

We have a zillion people who believe that anything that takes more than 15 seconds to explain is either factually incorrect, or is intentionally obfuscated.

Either way, there's a pretty strong distrust of robust explanations, and a stronger mistrust of anybody who says "you need to understand the foundations of the field before you're able to critique this statement". And then people assume that "critique" means "find fault with". Eventually they'll discredit the idea as "just a theory".

Its true though, unless you understand Hamiltonian theory, you're unprepared to deal with the nitty-gritty details of chaos theory, nor can you actually understand what differentiates standard uncertainty and chaotic behavior. But when I say that, people instinctively dismiss me as an ivory tower intellectual. And while I *AM* an ivory tower intellectual, my previous statement is not evidence of that.

People hear "peer-review" and assume that science is actually democratic, when in truth it has a lot more in common with Athenian democracy: you have to hold some pretty stringent (although admittedly somewhat arbitrary) qualifications to get in. And the reason for it is to keep the riff-raff out, or at least prevent them from strolling in and wasting everybody's time with demonstrably false assertions.


Partner rrrADAM


Oct 24, 2011, 9:38 AM
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Re: [petsfed] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
Let me rephrase:

We have a zillion people who believe that anything that takes more than 15 seconds to explain is either factually incorrect, or is intentionally obfuscated.

Either way, there's a pretty strong distrust of robust explanations, and a stronger mistrust of anybody who says "you need to understand the foundations of the field before you're able to critique this statement". And then people assume that "critique" means "find fault with". Eventually they'll discredit the idea as "just a theory".

Its true though, unless you understand Hamiltonian theory, you're unprepared to deal with the nitty-gritty details of chaos theory, nor can you actually understand what differentiates standard uncertainty and chaotic behavior. But when I say that, people instinctively dismiss me as an ivory tower intellectual. And while I *AM* an ivory tower intellectual, my previous statement is not evidence of that.

People hear "peer-review" and assume that science is actually democratic, when in truth it has a lot more in common with Athenian democracy: you have to hold some pretty stringent (although admittedly somewhat arbitrary) qualifications to get in. And the reason for it is to keep the riff-raff out, or at least prevent them from strolling in and wasting everybody's time with demonstrably false assertions.


Very well said, Brian.

Ironically enough, it takes more than 15 seconds to read it, thus only 1:ZILLION will get it.


damienclimber


Oct 25, 2011, 6:52 PM
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Re: [rmsusa] From Simple Rules - Complexity Arises [In reply to]
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rmsusa wrote:
In reply to:
Mostly, we have a zillion people who believe anything that takes more than 15 seconds to explain is a lie.

I don't think it's quite that bad. Lie is a really strong word.

We do have about a zillion people who believe that complex systems can be shoved about predictably with application of simple inputs. Then it gets tried and everybody's suprised that things didn't turn out quite as expected.

No more special needs programs for the MM states or any U.S states.
goodbye AA , hello equality


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