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A-Bowl
Jun 27, 2011, 4:48 PM
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Hey man, I can understand not trespassing to avoid access issues but I don't think that was the case with the gunks. If they catch you they charge you, that's what i was lead to believe. Now please explain what exactly I stole from the mohonk preserve by climbing the rocks.
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marc801
Jun 27, 2011, 5:04 PM
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A-Bowl wrote: If they catch you they charge you, that's what i was lead to believe.
A-Bowl wrote: Now please explain what exactly I stole from the mohonk preserve by climbing the rocks.
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A-Bowl
Jun 27, 2011, 5:10 PM
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At ski resorts you do essentially steal from them assuming you use their lifts... now again explain what you steal by walking up to a rock and climbing it?
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marc801
Jun 27, 2011, 5:21 PM
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A-Bowl wrote: At ski resorts you do essentially steal from them assuming you use their lifts...
But you're still missing the point that the Gunks is private land.
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sp115
Jun 27, 2011, 6:00 PM
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A-Bowl wrote: Hey man, I can understand not trespassing to avoid access issues but I don't think that was the case with the gunks. If they catch you they charge you, that's what i was lead to believe. Now please explain what exactly I stole from the mohonk preserve by climbing the rocks.
Marc has done an admirable job of explaining the finer nuances of why stealing a service is no different than stealing an object, repeating it won't add anything.
(This post was edited by sp115 on Jun 28, 2011, 4:39 AM)
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rangerrob
Jun 28, 2011, 3:24 AM
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If I owned that cliff I'd charge your dumb ass 50 bucks a day to climb there. Stay in arizona if you don't like it, or go climb in the Adirondacks. A shit ton of rock for free. Oh, it doesn't have a conveniently well maintained carraige road running along the base of the cliff, that's probably why you didn't go there.
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sp115
Jun 28, 2011, 1:01 PM
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rangerrob wrote: If I owned that cliff...
BTW Rob, who pays for the Rangers on the Preserve? Is that Mohonk funded or paid by the state?
People might think they just collect fees but they are also there save your ass when it get's ugly and that alone is worth every penny.
(This post was edited by sp115 on Jun 28, 2011, 1:03 PM)
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gblauer
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Jun 28, 2011, 2:25 PM
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Mohonk rangers are paid by the preserve.
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sp115
Jun 28, 2011, 3:28 PM
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gblauer wrote: Mohonk rangers are paid by the preserve.
Well there you go.
I would assume that should mitigate some the rape concern?
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A-Bowl
Jul 3, 2011, 6:24 PM
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You're funny man. This thread is one of the reasons I spent over a week up in the adirondacks and a month at the new and one only one day at the gunks. Just tried to stay clear of you guys. We got the sense on the east coast that people were so used to paying for shit they actually sought it out rather than find free/cheap alternatives. Examples being everyone packed into pay camping when there was free national forest camping close by. I Guess you guys need your "services" like extra wide paved trails, paid security guards and sweet smelling toilets. I for one am super stoked your kind huddle together in groups banding together to pay some guys mortgage somewhere.
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rangerrob
Jul 3, 2011, 7:36 PM
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wow, did you learn how to stereotype in school, or does it just come naturally for you? Well, with people like John McCain representing you, I think I know the answer to that question.
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bmb
Jul 22, 2011, 6:59 AM
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Regarding the fee, read a little about Gunk history. Before moving to Arizona in 2006, I lived in NY state all my life. Minnewaska State Park was previously a private preserve, too, with public access for a fee. The family who owned it went bankrupt, and had to sell in the 1980s. Guess who jumped at the opportunity? One of the major hotel chains. They proposed a hotel on the edge of the lake, condos all over, and of course lots of jobs and taxes. The state felt it couldn't afford to buy it, but at the last moment did. Many businessmen, politicians and locals were livid, but today the Shawangunks are still intact.
Moral of the story: In the real world, others will pay for our wilderness if we don't. Do you really want more commercial development in the gunks, second homes in the Adirondacks and along the New River, mansions atop Camelback Mountain in Phoenix, uranium mining next to the Grand Canyon, and dams along our rivers?
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Lucas79
Oct 26, 2011, 5:43 AM
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Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and add some fuel to this fire. I just moved here from CO ,(via OR), and am surprised that people aren't more outraged than they are. I'm all for paying entrance fees for access to private, state, or federally owned lands....but $17 per climber per day is ridiculous! Wouldn't be so bad if $17 gave you access for a week or two, or even if it was $17 per car per day.....but $17 a piece for one measly day of climbing? By comparison, (these are state or federally owned mind you and are much bigger climbing areas than the gunks), Eldorado Canyon $8 per car per day.....Yosemite $20 per car per week.....RMNP $20 per car per week....Red Rocks $10 per car per day......J Tree $15 per car per week.
I knew that the east coast was more expensive upon moving out here.....but $17 per person per day to climb outside?
(This post was edited by Lucas79 on Oct 26, 2011, 6:35 AM)
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marc801
Oct 26, 2011, 3:06 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and add some fuel to this fire. I just moved here from CO ,(via OR), and am surprised that people aren't more outraged than they are. I'm all for paying entrance fees for access to private, state, or federally owned lands....but $17 per climber per day is ridiculous! Wouldn't be so bad if $17 gave you access for a week or two, or even if it was $17 per car per day.....but $17 a piece for one measly day of climbing? By comparison, (these are state or federally owned mind you and are much bigger climbing areas than the gunks), Eldorado Canyon $8 per car per day.....Yosemite $20 per car per week.....RMNP $20 per car per week....Red Rocks $10 per car per day......J Tree $15 per car per week. I knew that the east coast was more expensive upon moving out here.....but $17 per person per day to climb outside?
Go back and carefully reread the entire thread. You're missing the key point: the Gunks is *PRIVATE LAND* held in public trust. You cannot compare it to state or federally owned parks. Comparison to private golf courses, ski areas, and hunting preserves is more apt.
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shockabuku
Oct 26, 2011, 3:13 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and add some fuel to this fire. I just moved here from CO ,(via OR), and am surprised that people aren't more outraged than they are. I'm all for paying entrance fees for access to private, state, or federally owned lands....but $17 per climber per day is ridiculous! Wouldn't be so bad if $17 gave you access for a week or two, or even if it was $17 per car per day.....but $17 a piece for one measly day of climbing? By comparison, (these are state or federally owned mind you and are much bigger climbing areas than the gunks), Eldorado Canyon $8 per car per day.....Yosemite $20 per car per week.....RMNP $20 per car per week....Red Rocks $10 per car per day......J Tree $15 per car per week. I knew that the east coast was more expensive upon moving out here.....but $17 per person per day to climb outside?
Buy a season pass. On your 6th day of climbing you're saving money.
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jakedatc
Oct 26, 2011, 3:29 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and add some fuel to this fire. I just moved here from CO ,(via OR), and am surprised that people aren't more outraged than they are. I'm all for paying entrance fees for access to private, state, or federally owned lands....but $17 per climber per day is ridiculous! Wouldn't be so bad if $17 gave you access for a week or two, or even if it was $17 per car per day.....but $17 a piece for one measly day of climbing? By comparison, (these are state or federally owned mind you and are much bigger climbing areas than the gunks), Eldorado Canyon $8 per car per day.....Yosemite $20 per car per week.....RMNP $20 per car per week....Red Rocks $10 per car per day......J Tree $15 per car per week. I knew that the east coast was more expensive upon moving out here.....but $17 per person per day to climb outside?
Ahem... The Spot in boulder charges $16 for a DAY pass.. to boulder in their boulder only gym. yes it's a kickass boulder gym but still. a YEAR pass is $545 bucks!
Sorry to burst your CO milk and honey bubble there brahhhhhhh but you're incorrect.
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Lucas79
Oct 26, 2011, 4:50 PM
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Yeah, but who's talking about climbing gyms here.....brahhh? If I'm going to a climbing gym I'm expecting to pay about that much.....but not a traditional climbing area.
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olderic
Oct 26, 2011, 5:17 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: Yeah, but who's talking about climbing gyms here.....brahhh? If I'm going to a climbing gym I'm expecting to pay about that much.....but not a traditional climbing area.
First and foremost - as has been stated multiple times up thread - the Mohonk Preserve is NOT primarily a traditional climbing area. It is a privately owned nature preserve where that happens to be some climbing along with biking, hiking, x-c skiing and bird watching. The majority of the Preserve members - certainly the ones with influence ($$$) probably don't particularly want you in their preserve hooting and hollering (or bitching and moaning) and generally reeking havoc on nature with your antics.
If you are a climber it implies - made the commitment to buy the gear and travel to the Gunks (how much do you think that costs?) - that you have so much discretionary income that $17 is a drop in the bucket. The annual pass cost less then the real cost of you going to the Gunks for just 1 day even before you buy a day pass.
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Lucas79
Oct 26, 2011, 5:27 PM
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I mean, I understand that it's on private land and we're lucky that they let us climb there.....but still. They're charging to much.....no?
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eRJe
Oct 26, 2011, 5:36 PM
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If there were somewhere within day trip distance of where I'm living right now, I would gladly pay more than $17 a day to climb outside. I'm living in the middle of the Canadian prairies right now. It is a 10 hour drive to get to the Rockies and see anything that is even close to vertical from here.
$17 a day to climb at Gunks doesn't really seem that bad to me. Especially when it is on private land, and the alternative is to have it closed to climbing all together.
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curt
Oct 26, 2011, 5:39 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: Yeah, but who's talking about climbing gyms here.....brahhh? If I'm going to a climbing gym I'm expecting to pay about that much.....but not a traditional climbing area.
So, you think $17 is better spent at a climbing gym than at the Gunks? What a Gumby.
Curt
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jakedatc
Oct 26, 2011, 7:42 PM
Post #48 of 102
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Lucas79 wrote: I mean, I understand that it's on private land and we're lucky that they let us climb there.....but still. They're charging to much.....no?
You get free bathrooms, camping, ranger service, rescue service, and access to some of the best stone on the east coast.
so you think that climbing plastic holds on cement walls is worth more than that? you should be bitching to them that they are charging as much as an outdoor cliff with all of those amenities for bouldering plastic. THEY are making a profit. Mohonk is not.
fucking gumby is right.
Edit: Also, you need to go to the Spot 35 times to pay for a year pass. vs 5-6 times for the gunks..
"Come on man!"
(This post was edited by jakedatc on Oct 26, 2011, 7:46 PM)
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marc801
Oct 26, 2011, 7:52 PM
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Lucas79 wrote: I mean, I understand that it's on private land and we're lucky that they let us climb there.....but still. They're charging to much.....no?
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shockabuku
Oct 26, 2011, 9:03 PM
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marc801 wrote: Lucas79 wrote: I mean, I understand that it's on private land and we're lucky that they let us climb there.....but still. They're charging to much.....no? No. They should probably charge $50 / day if it will help keep out whiners and complainers with a sense of entitlement.
I think at $50/day you'd get a greater percentage of people with a sense of entitlement than you do now.
I wonder, like a gym, how much of their cost is rolled up into insurance given that it's a private organization.
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