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Marylandclimber


Nov 15, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz.
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Is the new "GridLock Black Diamond Carabiner" any good? It looks really cool and helpful but is it worth buying for its price? Also, are Ball Nut Stoppers trustworthy? Are they strong and worth getting? Thanks for any replies.


rtwilli4


Nov 15, 2011, 1:20 PM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Biner is not worth the price. It's a gimmick.

Ball nuts are excellent for thin cracks. I like them over a micro-cam any day. In the larger sizes I'd rather just place a cam or stopper.


tolman_paul


Nov 15, 2011, 2:37 PM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Ball nuts are a specialty item, you occasionally find a placement that they are perfect for. But if you set them really well or fall on them, figure it's a permanent placement. For a beginner building a rack, I'd say ball nuts are one of the last items to add to your rack, if at all.


gunkiemike


Nov 15, 2011, 2:57 PM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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In the hands of a new climber, non-leader like yourself, I would say no, Ball-Nuts are not trustworthy. They are a very tricky bit of gear that no newbie should be considering unless/until they have received hands-on instruction. Put in on your "Someday" list of gear, along with that big #4 Camalot and the drilling hardware.


healyje


Nov 16, 2011, 2:20 AM
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Re: [tolman_paul] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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tolman_paul wrote:
Ball nuts are a specialty item, you occasionally find a placement that they are perfect for. But if you set them really well or fall on them, figure it's a permanent placement. For a beginner building a rack, I'd say ball nuts are one of the last items to add to your rack, if at all.

I'd agree with posters here that ball nuts are not something beginners should be attempting to place.

That said, I have about a dozen or more Lowe/Byrne ball nuts and use the #2 - #4 all the time and in my free climbing. I've taken over a dozen solid falls on them with six falls in a row on a #3 working a roof problem - I've never had a problem getting them out after a fall, ever. The one I took six falls on came right out, but it is pretty much one of the most perfect placements you could ever hope for.


cwo2


Nov 16, 2011, 3:20 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Addressing MD crags specifically, they are a welcome addition to my rack at MD Heights (Harpers Ferry); but I don't use them much elsewhere. Not at all necessary for any top rope anchors in the region.


Marylandclimber


Nov 16, 2011, 4:10 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Thanks guys for your responses. Ball Nutz looked weird to me anyway. Than again I'm not quite sure how they work.


shockabuku


Nov 16, 2011, 5:31 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Marylandclimber wrote:
Is the new "GridLock Black Diamond Carabiner" any good? It looks really cool and helpful but is it worth buying for its price? Also, are Ball Nut Stoppers trustworthy? Are they strong and worth getting? Thanks for any replies.

I bought one of those biners and traded it away for a normal locker about 2 months later.


iknowfear


Nov 16, 2011, 8:42 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
Is the new "GridLock Black Diamond Carabiner" any good? It looks really cool and helpful but is it worth buying for its price? Also, are Ball Nut Stoppers trustworthy? Are they strong and worth getting? Thanks for any replies.

I bought one of those biners and traded it away for a normal locker about 2 months later.

The Grid Lock is still far superior to the DMM Belay Master imho...

I actually quite like the grid lock...


shockabuku


Nov 16, 2011, 8:50 AM
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Re: [iknowfear] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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iknowfear wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
Marylandclimber wrote:
Is the new "GridLock Black Diamond Carabiner" any good? It looks really cool and helpful but is it worth buying for its price? Also, are Ball Nut Stoppers trustworthy? Are they strong and worth getting? Thanks for any replies.

I bought one of those biners and traded it away for a normal locker about 2 months later.

The Grid Lock is still far superior to the DMM Belay Master imho...

I actually quite like the grid lock...

It does what it's supposed to do, I thought it's just a PITA to use.


njrox


Nov 16, 2011, 9:08 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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I like the Gridlock. It's my dedicated belay device biner. Some people don't like how it clips/unclips to the belay loop but you'll get the hang of it.

No idea on Ball Nut Stoppers. I actually haven't seen them in use, or hanging from anyone's gear sling. I'm getting the impression from the replies that they're a bit of a speciality item. You may not need them right off the bat.


bearbreeder


Nov 16, 2011, 9:23 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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has there been a single case where an xloaded belay biner broke while belaying in the real world?

if so, can someone point me to it?

i suspect that you should be more worried about belaying properly than these new fangled gadgets ... human error is what will kill you generally


shockabuku


Nov 16, 2011, 9:34 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
has there been a single case where an xloaded belay biner broke while belaying in the real world?

if so, can someone point me to it?

i suspect that you should be more worried about belaying properly than these new fangled gadgets ... human error is what will kill you generally

I feel compelled to say that (aside from your questionable sexual based posts) a lot of what you have to add to this site makes a decent contribution but your 'this isn't the way we used to do it in the past so it shouldn't be changed' attitude confuses me when it deals with changes that don't really hurt anything. Why work so hard to stifle creativity that someday might lead to something interesting? This is an actual question and not just an attempt to flame you.


bearbreeder


Nov 16, 2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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i have no problem with a gridlock biner or other such innovation that solve a real problem ...

i do however have a problem with all the marketing hype ... and all the brainless hype on the forums that itll be the next best thing since sliced bread

if you dig up the old gridlock posts on different forums ... im sure youll find quite a bit of hype about deadly old school belay biners and how the gridlock will prevent you from ... well something ...

reality ... month later those of us without a gridlock are still living ... and some people have gotten rid of their gridlocks

same hype went around with the magnetron biners a year before release ... well see if the reality holds up

one piece of innovation (or copying) i do find useful is the mammut alpine smart ... i find it better than a gri gri, you can do 2 strand rappels, it slips slightly for trad, is assisted locking, is half the price and lighter than a gri gri ... and i use it

so i guess the answer is when theres a very real problem to solve, or it does something better in a way that makes a difference ... innovation, im all for it ... however when its more marketing hype ... buy it if you want, just dont tell me i NEED it

ive had quite a few partners go out and buy the new gridlock ... when they started bragging about how itll prevent people from dying because of the lack of xloading ... i simply said ... "why (insert name), how does it help you since im belaying you with a deadly normal locker" ...

none of them were persuaded to buy me a free gridlock for me to use on em ... so i guess it cant be that great ... after all if their life aint with ~20$ or so to prevent the deadly xloading Tongue


shockabuku


Nov 16, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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thanks


petsfed


Nov 16, 2011, 11:43 AM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Judging by their constant appearance on backpacks, I guess its the $20 fiddly accessory to advertise that you're a hardcore climber. You know, in case the other climbers on the bus/subway need to bow down to your clear superiority.

When I need a new belay biner, I might check it out. Seems like it'd be nice for the gri-gri if the bar stock fits the hole.


njrox


Nov 16, 2011, 12:00 PM
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Re: [petsfed] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Gridlock fits the GriGri2 like a glove.

I actually bought my Gridlock and GriGiri2 together, not long after they both came out. And yes, I was the cool kid at the crag for a few days with the fresh out the box Gridlock/GriGri2 combo and all the crusty old climbers came by to inspect and admire my shiny new gear.


Marylandclimber


Nov 16, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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I guess your right but I'm sure there has been and if not, I don't wan't to be the first!


rossross


Nov 16, 2011, 12:40 PM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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Ball Nuts
I love em. Great in small cracks. Sometimes can be a bit of a pain to get out if you fall on em. But thats the point. If im placing a small piece of gear I want it to be solid if i pitch off on it. I have always gotten it out, all two times lol. They are not a good idea for TR anchors.

Grid lock
I have one. I bought it for when I go rope soloing, which is normally when im working a proj. Seems like every time I looked down my mini traxion was cross loaded. So when this came out I picked one up. Works great if your rope soloing a lot. Since I have one I started using it on my grigri. It works fine. I had a couple of friends complain about it, specifically about how annoying it is to clip into. I proceed to make fun of them. You clip it into belay loop, then open the gate again to set the belay loop in the "grid lock", it takes about an extra 1/2 second once you have done it 2-3 times. What can be a little annoying is when your are not using the belay device and have it hanging off your harness. Unless you clip the grigri into the "grid lock" part of the biner it ends up sticking out sideways. But again its an easy fix, I usualy just throw it on the rope bag.

Conclusion
Buy a couple ball nuts if you are leading lots of thin cracks and have the money to spare.
Buy a grid lock if you do lots of rope soloing, or if you need to replace your current belay biner. But I would def not run out and get one just because.


bearbreeder


Nov 16, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Re: [Marylandclimber] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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this isnt a climbing related article . but i think its quite instructive how marketers will use fear to sell gear ... and how a lot of outdoor media is not reliable

i think as climbing becomes more and more popular ... youll see these kinds of marketing issues come out more often with climbing gear

convince enough people that if you dont buy a "safer" product and that youll die ... and enough people will buy it Wink

http://www.nytimes.com/...e&pagewanted=all

When a few of Nike’s shoes didn’t fare so well in the 1981 reviews, the company pulled its $1 million advertising contract with Runner’s World. Nike already had started its own magazine, Running, which would publish shoe reviews and commission star writers like Ken Kesey and Hunter S. Thompson.

“Nike would never advertise with me again,” Anderson says. “That hurt us bad.” In 1985, Anderson sold Runner’s World to Rodale, which, he says, promptly abolished his grading system. Today, every shoe in Runner’s World is effectively “recommended” for one kind of runner or another. David Willey, the magazine’s current editor, says that it only tests shoes that “are worth our while.” After Nike closed its magazine, it took its advertising back to Runner’s World. (Megan Saalfeld, a Nike spokeswoman, says she was unable to find someone to comment about this episode.)

“It’s a grading system where you can only get an A,” says Anderson, who went on to become the founder and chief executive of Ujena Swimwear.

Just as the shoe reviews were changing, so were the shoes: fear, the greatest of marketing tools, entered the game. Instead of being sold as performance accessories, running shoes were rebranded as safety items, like bike helmets and smoke alarms. Consumers were told they’d get hurt, perhaps for life, if they didn’t buy the “right” shoes. It was an audacious move that flew in the face of several biological truths: humans had thrived as running animals for two million years without corrective shoes, and asphalt was no harder than the traditional hunting terrains of the African savanna.

In 1985, Benno Nigg, founder and currently co-director of the University of Calgary’s Human Performance Lab, floated the notion that impact and rear-foot motion (called pronation) were dangerous. His work helped spur an arms race of experimental technology to counter those risks with plush heels and wedged shoes. Running magazines spread the new gospel. To this day, Runner’s World tells beginners that their first workout should be opening their wallets: “Go to a specialty running store . . . you’ll leave with a comfortable pair of shoes that will have you running pain- and injury-free.”



(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Nov 16, 2011, 12:43 PM)


njrox


Nov 16, 2011, 1:22 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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It's a biner with a convenient add-on, a cool little nub that in theory will prevent it from rotating around your belay loop and getting cross-loaded. It’s basically an upgrade. No, it’s not guarunteed to save your life. Yes, you can use something else instead. It's not talisman. And it's not some sort of nefarious fear tactic concocted by The Man who controls The Industry to make a ton of money off of unsuspected scared climbers either. Just because someone makes an innovation inspired by saftey doesn’t necessarily cancel out it’s benefit. I use a Gridlock because A. I already bought one, B. it’s worked fine so far and C. it’s already on my harness. Have I and do I use other biners to belay (or be belayed)? Yes. Do I look as cool? HELL NO!!! (just kidding)


moose_droppings


Nov 16, 2011, 1:41 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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I don't buy into hyped up gear, nor is all newer gear hype. We know from testing that a cross loaded biner is significantly weaker. If a newly released belay biner can prevent cross loading, thus making it safer, then whats wrong if someone wants to up their odds? Just because people aren't dying left and right without them doesn't make them useless.

It's not hurting my safety, and it's not hurting theirs, to each their own if they use one or not.


bearbreeder


Nov 16, 2011, 2:34 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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no one with a gridlock has insisted that i belay em with a gridlock

unless you do ... how does that make your life safer, yr partners sure ...but unless you insist yr partner belay you with a gridlock, its a bit hypocritical Wink

perhaps someone can provide me with the accident report of a belay biner failure due to xloading ...

its a perfectly fine belay biner ... but so are a ton of other ones that are cheaper and lighter ... and whos users dont go on about how safe their gdirlock is Tongue


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Nov 16, 2011, 2:36 PM)


moose_droppings


Nov 16, 2011, 2:54 PM
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Re: [bearbreeder] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
no one with a gridlock has insisted that i belay em with a gridlock

unless you do ... how does that make your life safer, yr partners sure ...but unless you insist yr partner belay you with a gridlock, its a bit hypocritical Wink

perhaps someone can provide me with the accident report of a belay biner failure due to xloading ...

its a perfectly fine belay biner ... but so are a ton of other ones that are cheaper and lighter ... and whos users dont go on about how safe their gdirlock is Tongue

Wink
I don't use one, so it's no skin off my nose. Like I said before:
In reply to:
It's not hurting my safety, and it's not hurting theirs
Tongue

Wink
You on the other hand seem to belittle someone that chooses to use one. Why, because you say they're unnecessary. Tongue

Big deal, live and let live.Wink
TongueSmileWinkCoolLaugh


bearbreeder


Nov 16, 2011, 3:19 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Grid-Lock Black Carabiners and ball nutz. [In reply to]
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i certainly dont "belittle" my partners who use one

unless one of them says ... "hey my new gridlock wont xload so its safer"

to which i reply ... "great ... but ive got an old deadly biner, so how does that help you?"

Wink

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