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Carabiners Fair Game?
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SylviaSmile


Dec 6, 2011, 7:22 AM
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Carabiners Fair Game?
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Is there a rule somewhere that carabiners are fair game to claim as your own, whereas ATC's are not? I was climbing at the gym and accidentally left my ATC-guide and locking carabiner there. When I returned to check the lost & found, only the former was present. I'm sure I had the carabiner clipped onto the belay device--why would you take one but not the other? Just wondering.


djlachelt


Dec 6, 2011, 7:45 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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That does seem odd that someone would take the biner but not the ATC. Maybe they lost their biner and wanted a replacement, so didn't feel the need to take the device also. Maybe your biner was just like what they lost and they thought they were getting theirs back.


jae8908


Dec 6, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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It does seem odd. Did you have tape marking it as yours? Sometimes in our gym people will set gear down and accidentally be picked up by others who have confused it as theirs since they have identical gear. This may not be what happened to yours but You should mark your gear as yours just in case of an accidental pickup. If it is stealing on purpose then there is no excuse.


SylviaSmile


Dec 6, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Re: [djlachelt] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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Yeah, I think I just realized why: my ATC is distinctive enough that I could recognize it if I saw someone else using it, whereas the biner was pretty basic. Maybe I will start defacing/writing with Sharpie on the gear I bring to the gym now, just in case . . .


SylviaSmile


Dec 6, 2011, 7:53 AM
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Re: [jae8908] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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jae8908 wrote:
It does seem odd. Did you have tape marking it as yours? Sometimes in our gym people will set gear down and accidentally be picked up by others who have confused it as theirs since they have identical gear. This may not be what happened to yours but You should mark your gear as yours just in case of an accidental pickup. If it is stealing on purpose then there is no excuse.

No, I didn't have tape on the biner, that's a good idea. It was a Black Diamond screwgate carabiner, so anyone might have thought it was theirs--except for the fact that it was attached to my purple, somewhat scratched ATC :)


jae8908


Dec 6, 2011, 7:57 AM
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yea, I always mark my gear with tape to prevent accidental pickup of it but if someone wants to steal it, it will not matter. they will just take it and not bring it into the gym anymore. It was probably stolen since it will be unrecognizable to anyone. It will come back to bite them in the ass in the end.


shimanilami


Dec 6, 2011, 10:59 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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Why they took your 'biner alone isn't the point. You left property there and someone STOLE it. That's bullshit and that asshole is a fucking dick.

With that said, someone left a bucket of chalk in the gym this morning and, since I was low, I dumped some into my chalkbag. So fuck me.


SylviaSmile


Dec 6, 2011, 11:17 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
Why they took your 'biner alone isn't the point. You left property there and someone STOLE it. That's bullshit and that asshole is a fucking dick.

With that said, someone left a bucket of chalk in the gym this morning and, since I was low, I dumped some into my chalkbag. So fuck me.

omg CHALK THIEF!! lol . . . I guess I'm not particularly saddened about the loss of the biner, since I should have taken better care not to leave it behind. I was just wondering if there was some threshold of value under which climbing gear becomes common--like in your example of the chalk, you took maybe 25 cents worth of chalk at the most, which seems reasonable. I might not do the same, just because I tend to think of other people's stuff as being theirs and mine as being mine. I certainly wouldn't take someone else's carabiner (which I could have done, there being several others in the lost and found which were NOT mine), because those things are at least $7-8, which even if I took a more communistic view, seems like a bit too much to appropriate!


shockabuku


Dec 6, 2011, 11:28 AM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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SylviaSmile wrote:
jae8908 wrote:
It does seem odd. Did you have tape marking it as yours? Sometimes in our gym people will set gear down and accidentally be picked up by others who have confused it as theirs since they have identical gear. This may not be what happened to yours but You should mark your gear as yours just in case of an accidental pickup. If it is stealing on purpose then there is no excuse.

No, I didn't have tape on the biner, that's a good idea. It was a Black Diamond screwgate carabiner, so anyone might have thought it was theirs--except for the fact that it was attached to my purple, somewhat scratched ATC :)

Paint is a more effective solution. I use paint markers for ease of application. Many people use nail polish. Some use spray paint. Tape is a pain in the ass.


shockabuku


Dec 6, 2011, 11:30 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
Why they took your 'biner alone isn't the point. You left property there and someone STOLE it. That's bullshit and that asshole is a fucking dick.

With that said, someone left a bucket of chalk in the gym this morning and, since I was low, I dumped some into my chalkbag. So fuck me.

You're right, the person who stole her biner is a dick and thief.

However, I'm sure whoever left their chalkbucket at the gym was willing to share (to some degree).


olderic


Dec 6, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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Since they didn't take the belay device too it seems clear that they weren't out to actually "steal" stuff. I imagine they were short a biner and decided to "borrow" one from the lost and found (most of us have done it). Then - just like you - they forgot about it. In your case you forgot to take it and in their case they forgot to leave it. Probably hanging on a harness gear loop and will get discovered - maybe tomorrow - maybe next year.

If you want to educate your self about all the conflicting views about what's up for grabs with left behind gear do a search on "booty ethics" - maybe better make it "climbing booty ethics" if you want to avoid the XXX hits. Smile


lena_chita
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Dec 7, 2011, 7:50 AM
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Re: [olderic] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
Since they didn't take the belay device too it seems clear that they weren't out to actually "steal" stuff. I imagine they were short a biner and decided to "borrow" one from the lost and found (most of us have done it). Then - just like you - they forgot about it. In your case you forgot to take it and in their case they forgot to leave it. Probably hanging on a harness gear loop and will get discovered - maybe tomorrow - maybe next year.

I doubt that possibility. Most likely they stole the carabiner because they considered it useful, but didn't need the ATC, so they turned it in to a lost-and-found. Or maybe it were two different people -- one stole the 'biner, and one returned the ATC.

In a hypothetical situation (outside, not in the gym), if I were to find an unmarked ATC-guide on a 'biner, and nobody responded to a post about lost gear (or inquiries at the crag), my reaction would be "oh, cool, an extra locker, useful!" and "here, anyone wants and ATC guide? No? O.K., let me throw that ATC-guide in a box of gear I never use".

While it is possible that someone returned the belay device+'biner to the lost-and-found and then someone (same person or a different one), "borrowed" a 'biner from lost-and-found, there are very few situations in a GYM where someone is short a 'biner and needs to borrow one. Pretty much the only time you need a 'biner in a gym is to attach your belay device. Everyone I know always keeps a belay device+'biner as a single unit, so if you forget it, you forget both.

olderic wrote:
If you want to educate your self about all the conflicting views about what's up for grabs with left behind gear do a search on "booty ethics" - maybe better make it "climbing booty ethics" if you want to avoid the XXX hits. Smile

I don't think this is applicable in a gym situation. There is no booty in a gym.This was stealing.

But booty threads make an interesting read, LOL


SylviaSmile


Dec 7, 2011, 8:39 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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Finding myself in that very situation (short a biner and needing to borrow one), I noticed that the gym doesn't loan out the L&F biners...they have another stash for renting/loaning. To get into the lost and found, you'd have to say you actually lost something. :)


rsd212


Dec 7, 2011, 10:44 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
Paint is a more effective solution. I use paint markers for ease of application. Many people use nail polish. Some use spray paint. Tape is a pain in the ass.

Really? I disagree...recently switched from model paint to paint marker to just plain old PVC tape. With tape there's nothing to dry. Though with paint you have the advantage of getting it into some recessed areas where its not going to wear off...


shockabuku


Dec 7, 2011, 11:47 AM
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Re: [rsd212] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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rsd212 wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
Paint is a more effective solution. I use paint markers for ease of application. Many people use nail polish. Some use spray paint. Tape is a pain in the ass.

Really? I disagree...recently switched from model paint to paint marker to just plain old PVC tape. With tape there's nothing to dry. Though with paint you have the advantage of getting it into some recessed areas where its not going to wear off...

To each his (or her) own. I dislike tape because it peels off and requires more frequent maintenance as well as leaving a sticky residue. And yes, paint always sticks in some of the crevices even when most wears off.


olderic


Dec 7, 2011, 7:01 PM
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Re: [lena_chita] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
olderic wrote:
Since they didn't take the belay device too it seems clear that they weren't out to actually "steal" stuff. I imagine they were short a biner and decided to "borrow" one from the lost and found (most of us have done it). Then - just like you - they forgot about it. In your case you forgot to take it and in their case they forgot to leave it. Probably hanging on a harness gear loop and will get discovered - maybe tomorrow - maybe next year.

I doubt that possibility. Most likely they stole the carabiner because they considered it useful, but didn't need the ATC, so they turned it in to a lost-and-found. Or maybe it were two different people -- one stole the 'biner, and one returned the ATC.

In a hypothetical situation (outside, not in the gym), if I were to find an unmarked ATC-guide on a 'biner, and nobody responded to a post about lost gear (or inquiries at the crag), my reaction would be "oh, cool, an extra locker, useful!" and "here, anyone wants and ATC guide? No? O.K., let me throw that ATC-guide in a box of gear I never use".

While it is possible that someone returned the belay device+'biner to the lost-and-found and then someone (same person or a different one), "borrowed" a 'biner from lost-and-found, there are very few situations in a GYM where someone is short a 'biner and needs to borrow one. Pretty much the only time you need a 'biner in a gym is to attach your belay device. Everyone I know always keeps a belay device+'biner as a single unit, so if you forget it, you forget both.

olderic wrote:
If you want to educate your self about all the conflicting views about what's up for grabs with left behind gear do a search on "booty ethics" - maybe better make it "climbing booty ethics" if you want to avoid the XXX hits. Smile

I don't think this is applicable in a gym situation. There is no booty in a gym.This was stealing.

But booty threads make an interesting read, LOL

Oh really? You really think that someone is so devious as to outright STEAL a biner as opposed to absent mindingly borrowing it with the intention of giving it back? The horror. Out of all the valuables that are usually easy picking at a gym they chose a biner. Uh-huh.

But there are other common uses (besides connecting a belay device) for biners in a gym - anchoring for example.

As far as the gym being an applicable venue for booty ethics to come into play - well it's no different then the lost/abandoned/dropped $20 on the supermarket. It's always the right thing to try and return misplaced property yo its owner regardless of the venue. Some cases are more practical then others. But actually the OP said:

In reply to:
Is there a rule somewhere that carabiners are fair game to claim as your own, whereas ATC's are not?

They were looking for a threshold. No mention of the gym in the question. Later on they gave an example involving a gym but the original question stands on its own.


SylviaSmile


Dec 8, 2011, 7:22 AM
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Re: [olderic] Carabiners Fair Game? [In reply to]
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olderic wrote:
As far as the gym being an applicable venue for booty ethics to come into play - well it's no different then the lost/abandoned/dropped $20 on the supermarket. It's always the right thing to try and return misplaced property yo its owner regardless of the venue. Some cases are more practical then others. But actually the OP said:

In reply to:
Is there a rule somewhere that carabiners are fair game to claim as your own, whereas ATC's are not?

They were looking for a threshold. No mention of the gym in the question. Later on they gave an example involving a gym but the original question stands on its own.

It's been demonstrated to me that I ask questions in a broader way than I necessarily mean at the outset. Smile


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