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climbing on carrot bolts
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takenUsername


Dec 11, 2011, 5:52 PM
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climbing on carrot bolts
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So, in the spirit of diversity, we've been climbing at different places. Yesterday it was Castle Hill (New Zealand). Unfortunately, and something the guide book doesn't mention, almost all the routes are bolted with carrot bolts, i.e. bolts with no hangers. This was highly disappointing, as we had not the equipment or knowledge to deal with such things, and ended up topping the one or two we could find anchors for. A little bit of research leads us to two differing solutions, and I would like your thoughts on the subject.

Solution one: Stoppers.

Slide the nut down the wire, and then back up around the bolt. Clip a quickdraw into the end, a la http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=QupdBAEgpGEC&lpg=PA288&ots=c1lruuoux7&dq=hangerless%20bolts%20climbing%20freedom&pg=PA243#v=onepage&q&f=false.

Concerns: How securely does the nut hold the wire onto the bolt? It's conceivable that with enough tension on the rope, the stopper could be standing up vertically from the bolt, which could lead to simply "peeling off" the wall and bolt if a fall is taken.

Downside: Manipulating the sliding nut with one hand could be difficult.


Solution two: Hangers

Slip a hanger over the bolt, and clip a quickdraw in as per usual. The quickdraw being in place actually prevents the hanger from sliding off the bolt. http://www.sterling-adventures.co.uk/blog/2008/11/28/carrot-bolts/

Concerns: Since the hanger moves freely, it's conceivable (with enough tension, or simply unlucky positioning of the climber) that the hanger is repositioned so that it would actually fall off the bolt if there was no biner in it. If a fall was taken in this situation, the biner would be pulled down directly onto the bolt.

Downside: Knocking the hanger off the bolt in the act of clipping potentially loses you a hanger (and your hold). Extra wear on quickdraws that bang against the bolt.



I'd be keen to know everyone's opinions, and experiences with carrots, as it doesn't look like our city council is going to declare the city's crags safe (after our mad earthquakes) any time soon...

Thanks,


potreroed


Dec 11, 2011, 7:20 PM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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Find out what the locals do and do likewise.


porthillsclimber


Dec 11, 2011, 10:20 PM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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i have climbed at castle hill. i have used the a set of stoppers the way you described. small to medium sized stoppers work best. using nuts saves you from having to buy gear that you would otherwise not use that often (unless you go to Australia).

there are some climbs there that have bolts with hangers and some of the carrot bolts have a couple of chain links on them in the pace of hangers.

there are many quality routes there that are well worth the little bit of extra effort.


hobo_climber


Dec 11, 2011, 11:38 PM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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which guide were you using? both of mine mention naked carrot bolts as being abundant.
I use the stopper technique when dealing with carrots, combined with a really floppy draw (trad draw works well.) and never had any issues.


takenUsername


Dec 12, 2011, 12:06 AM
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Re: [hobo_climber] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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Well, we have the Comprehensive Castle Hill Climbing Guide, by Pierson & Davison.. Incidentally, it's the one recommended by the Alpine Club. Rock Delux mentions the carrot bolt indirectly and only in passing in its history of protection section. I do find it odd that the "official" Castle Hill guide doesn't mention this.

What size stopper do you generally use? One small enough to slip up underneath the bolt head and close the stopper completely around the bolt, or larger ones where the nut cannot close any farther than the bolt head?

Also, what precisely do you mean by "really floppy" draw?

Thanks


hobo_climber


Dec 12, 2011, 1:01 AM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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i tend to go for small stoppers. DMM size 1-5ish or the like.

by floppy draws i mean ones that have a bigger loop on the bolt/straight gate side of the draw so that the rope end of the draw can move around freely without disturbing the wire too much. either that or a extendable trad style draw consisting of a sewn sling with a couple of binners on it.

the comprehensive castle hill guide is intended primarily a a bouldering guide. seeing as castle hill is primarily a bouldering destination. but your right, they don't mention the carrots, even in the history section.

but really, who goes to the hill for the routes Wink


sbaclimber


Dec 12, 2011, 3:06 AM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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takenUsername wrote:
Solution two: Hangers

Slip a hanger over the bolt, and clip a quickdraw in as per usual. The quickdraw being in place actually prevents the hanger from sliding off the bolt. http://www.sterling-adventures.co.uk/blog/2008/11/28/carrot-bolts/
Be aware that those hangers won't fit over a lot of carrots (including many at the Hill)!

Everything the others have said about the guides and using wires... +1


I_do


Dec 12, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Re: [takenUsername] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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Just go to the local gear shop (they were grand when I was there) and ask for hangers for carrots. They are sized so they can't slide over the carrot if a draw is clipped to them. Other then that I would not consider routes at the hill. Bouldering is just way too good!


tor.lattimore


Dec 12, 2011, 2:13 PM
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Re: [I_do] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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Just a quick note in case you do end up getting hangers.

1. Don't forget to turn them round once you put them on and clip the biner through the large hole.

2. Some (small spined) modern biners combined with some hangers and some carrot bolts can still come off. Bolt-end wiregates can also allow the hanger to come off, and should be avoided.

Use with care.


(This post was edited by tor.lattimore on Dec 12, 2011, 2:14 PM)


I_do


Dec 12, 2011, 10:57 PM
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Re: [tor.lattimore] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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What do you mean with turn them around? I can't visualize what you mean...


tor.lattimore


Dec 12, 2011, 11:12 PM
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Re: [I_do] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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Have a look at the bolt plate in the link below. To install, place it over the bolt, which can only be done by putting the hole over the head. You then adjust it so the narrow part is behind the bolt head and the hole can have a biner put through it. Lots of people forget this obvious step and the bolt plate simply falls off as you climb past.

http://www.climbinganchors.com.au/products/PFH-45-Degree-Bolt-Plates.html


(This post was edited by tor.lattimore on Dec 12, 2011, 11:14 PM)


rightarmbad


Dec 13, 2011, 5:29 AM
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Re: [tor.lattimore] climbing on carrot bolts [In reply to]
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You don't 'turn them round'.

It is a keyhole shape, you put the plate over the bolthead, slde the plate so that the bolt shaft tucks up into the smaller slot, then clip it as usual.

If you are new to using them, get 90 deg types, they will look and clip just like any other fixed hanger.

As said, don't use small cross section biners or wiregates or the plate can lift off.

Sometimes it is wise to have a selection of plates, as not all bolts are the same and sometimes they are more prone to accidental unclipping or at the other extreme, the plate may jam when trying to put it on.


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