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donwanadi
Dec 15, 2011, 3:16 PM
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Over the winter I'd like to try a few aid lines on TR to learn to place protection. Are there some easy C1/C2 cracks at Powerlinez or at the Gunks? Traprock?
I'd like something on TR for my first few lines.
Come spring I'd spend a couple days with a guide and have them evaluate my placements. Then maybe lead few pitches of easy slab.
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Dec 15, 2011, 3:41 PM)
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njrox
Dec 15, 2011, 4:39 PM
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I think what you're trying to say is that you want to "mock-lead" while on Top Rope?
Gunks is trad paradise. You can easily place pro in cracks while on Top Rope. P-linez, not as much...there's a lot of R/X routes which means little to no gear placements avaiable. Never been to Traprock...where's that???
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donwanadi
Dec 15, 2011, 4:54 PM
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Central Traprock is in Connecticut.
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/central--traprock/106076672
I meant aid climbing while protected by top rope. I'd like to be setting a lot of protection and seeing how it responds to being weighted / bounced on.
My concern with the gunks was ease of access to setup a TR. Are there portions of the cliff aside from Peter's Kill that are 1 pitch or easily accessible?
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Dec 15, 2011, 4:55 PM)
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njrox
Dec 15, 2011, 5:41 PM
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I know nothing about Aid Climbing. A quick google search turned this up...
C1: Easy aid and easy placements. Typically nuts, cams and hexes.
C2: Moderate aid. Solid gear, but difficult to place. May require cam or sky hooks.
C1 with Nuts, cams, and hexes sounds like regular old trad climbing to me. Hence, my "mock leading" reference. There's a good handful of walk-up routes at The Gunks you can set up a TR on and, for the most part, stuff with gear placements on your way up.
Unless your putting in really small gear (C3 #0<, BD Stopper #5<) cams and stoppers are rated around 10kN which is meant for falls vs just supporting body weight. A good look at and into the placement and a couple of sharp tugs can usually sastify curiosoty.
C2 and up, things outside of cams nut and hexes...no idea.
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cracklover
Dec 15, 2011, 6:38 PM
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http://www.ghiz.org/gunksaid.shtml
Skip the TR. Of course you need to have a clue about placing gear first. And stay off popular climbs in nice weather.
Cheers,
GO
(This post was edited by cracklover on Dec 15, 2011, 6:40 PM)
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donwanadi
Dec 15, 2011, 6:44 PM
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I have no experience placing gear. Thus the TR requirement. The purpose is to gain some experience. If I were to lead while learning it's possible that all of my placements could fail and I would die. That would suck.
Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun.
Planning to do this through the cold months.
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Dec 15, 2011, 6:48 PM)
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njrox
Dec 15, 2011, 6:50 PM
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donwanadi wrote: Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun.
Now I know what I want for Christmas.
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cracklover
Dec 15, 2011, 6:57 PM
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donwanadi wrote: I have no experience placing gear. Thus the TR requirement. The purpose is to gain some experience. If I were to lead while learning it's possible that all of my placements could fail and I would die. That would suck. Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun. Planning to do this through the cold months.
Yes, several are toprope-able. But TR aid is a stupid way to learn to place gear. Don't skip ground school!
After you're done with ground school, then go aid a bunch of C1.
GO
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donwanadi
Dec 15, 2011, 8:14 PM
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njrox wrote: donwanadi wrote: Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun. Now I know what I want for Christmas.
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Dec 15, 2011, 8:15 PM)
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donwanadi
Dec 15, 2011, 8:19 PM
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cracklover wrote: donwanadi wrote: I have no experience placing gear. Thus the TR requirement. The purpose is to gain some experience. If I were to lead while learning it's possible that all of my placements could fail and I would die. That would suck. Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun. Planning to do this through the cold months. Yes, several are toprope-able. But TR aid is a stupid way to learn to place gear. Don't skip ground school! After you're done with ground school, then go aid a bunch of C1. GO
I'm planning to mess around a bit on the ground first.
I'm curious why you say that though. It seems to me that weighting pieces on TR is safer than a few feet off the ground and forces you to think about what piece could fit in a given place instead of what place you can find to fit the gear you have.
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rangerrob
Dec 15, 2011, 8:36 PM
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Don, I think what he is trying to say is that toprope aid climbing is a little.....umm...wierd sounding. No one really does that. if you want to test your placements you can do that all day long without getting more than two feet off the ground. just traverse horizontally. You will get good practice placing gear, weighting it, seeing what will hold and what won't. It will also challenge you a bit to b creative with what you come across because you won't be following a continuous crack. The other plus is that you won't torture a belayer who would have to belay your ass for two or three hours in the freezing cold while you aid climb.
I've been climbing for 17 years. I've never seen anyone aid climb on a toprope.
That being said, if you really want to toprope aid climb, then ken's Crack in the Trapps is easily accessible and is a continuous 40' vertical crack. You can get to the anchors of Laurel and Rhododendron with some 5.0 scframbling. You can TR the right side of the Herdie Gertie block via 4th class scrambling on the left side.
If you leave something on the carraigeway you can walk around to the top of Horseman and use your pack on the road as a guide to find the top of the route for that.
Have fun if you decide to do it, and remember, don't stare at the piece while you're bounce testing it!!
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gunkiemike
Dec 15, 2011, 10:04 PM
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donwanadi wrote: Planning to do this through the cold months.
Peterskill closes for the winter. Which is unfortunate for you because it is, as you noted, easily TR'ed, and there are more than a few cracks that would be fun to aid up. Gunks rock being what it is though, most cracks do not run the full height of the cliff.
The extreme right end of Lost City is worth a visit. The short walls there have a few vertical crack lines you can aid.
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cracklover
Dec 15, 2011, 10:18 PM
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donwanadi wrote: cracklover wrote: donwanadi wrote: I have no experience placing gear. Thus the TR requirement. The purpose is to gain some experience. If I were to lead while learning it's possible that all of my placements could fail and I would die. That would suck. Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun. Planning to do this through the cold months. Yes, several are toprope-able. But TR aid is a stupid way to learn to place gear. Don't skip ground school! After you're done with ground school, then go aid a bunch of C1. GO I'm planning to mess around a bit on the ground first. I'm curious why you say that though. It seems to me that weighting pieces on TR is safer than a few feet off the ground ...
Sure, it's safer. If you bounce on a piece on the ground and it rips, you might bruise your butt if you're really inept (or even if you're not). Actually, now that you mention it, staying home is safer still.
But if what you want to do is learn to place gear, then what you need to do is place a *lot* of gear. And bounce it. And make anchors out of it. And then place more gear. From the ground you can place much more gear much more quickly, and bounce on it without fear of pieces hitting you in the face and dropping you.
In reply to: ... and forces you to think about what piece could fit in a given place instead of what place you can find to fit the gear you have.
I don't understand what you mean by this ^^^
Ground-school 101:
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Find a spot with some cracks and reasonably good rock. Take your rack, and walk to a place with some placement potential. Place your three best pieces. Bounce each. Consider the placement of each. Fiddle as necessary. Set them aside. Place your three next best pieces. Continue until you cannot find a good placement in that section. Move to the next section. Lather rinse and repeat.
Ground-school 105:
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Same as above, but build anchors from every set of three. If some of them are shaky, consider adding a fourth, and try to incorporate it into your anchor.
Ground-school 201:
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Work on opposed placements, upward-pull pieces, etc.
All that should take you a half a dozen visits to the crag on your own time at the very most. Often you can find such a place you can get to on your lunch break. It doesn't have to have any good climbing. It doesn't even need to be more than five feet high.
Once you've done that, go do some aid leading, and if it's nice out by then, go do some easy free leads too.
Hope that helps.
GO
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cracklover
Dec 15, 2011, 10:24 PM
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rangerrob wrote: Don, I think what he is trying to say is that toprope aid climbing is a little.....umm...wierd sounding.
Ya, there's a reason it's weird sounding. It's a poor use of time. Especially if it's done in place of ground school.
In reply to: No one really does that.
I did it once! It was dumb. I had led a few pitches of C1 and was spooked by this climb. It was C2 at most. I shoulda just sacked up and led it. It was a stupid decision to TR it.
What can I say, we all make poor decisions every once in a while.
Cheers!
GO
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donwanadi
Dec 16, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Ground school it is. Thanks for the advice.
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johnwesely
Dec 16, 2011, 1:21 PM
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donwanadi wrote: Ground school it is. Thanks for the advice.
The Uberfall at the Gunks is probably the best place for ground school I have seen. The best part is there are so many gumbies, you will not look out of place.
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 16, 2011, 2:29 PM
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johnwesely wrote: donwanadi wrote: Ground school it is. Thanks for the advice. The Uberfall at the Gunks is probably the best place for ground school I have seen. The best part is there are so many gumbies, you will not look out of place.
Not only is it great for ground school, there is a long roof so you can even do it in the rain. If the weather looks iffy, go out and get some pitches in, then when the weather turns bad, head to the Uberfall to work on ground school.
Josh
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johnwesely
Dec 16, 2011, 2:51 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: johnwesely wrote: donwanadi wrote: Ground school it is. Thanks for the advice. The Uberfall at the Gunks is probably the best place for ground school I have seen. The best part is there are so many gumbies, you will not look out of place. Not only is it great for ground school, there is a long roof so you can even do it in the rain. If the weather looks iffy, go out and get some pitches in, then when the weather turns bad, head to the Uberfall to work on ground school. Josh
There are also some really great spots for practicing cam dynos.
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veganclimber
Dec 17, 2011, 12:14 AM
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blueeyedclimber
Dec 22, 2011, 2:40 PM
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veganclimber wrote: cracklover wrote: donwanadi wrote: cracklover wrote: donwanadi wrote: I have no experience placing gear. Thus the TR requirement. The purpose is to gain some experience. If I were to lead while learning it's possible that all of my placements could fail and I would die. That would suck. Are any of the climbs on that list easily TR'd without a rope gun. Planning to do this through the cold months. Yes, several are toprope-able. But TR aid is a stupid way to learn to place gear. Don't skip ground school! After you're done with ground school, then go aid a bunch of C1. GO I'm planning to mess around a bit on the ground first. I'm curious why you say that though. It seems to me that weighting pieces on TR is safer than a few feet off the ground ... Sure, it's safer. If you bounce on a piece on the ground and it rips, you might bruise your butt if you're really inept (or even if you're not). If you are standing in a sling with your legs straight, even a short fall could be serious. You should definitely keep your knees bent a little bit near the ground.
Isn't that what bouldering pads are for? Ground School protection?
Josh
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divnamite
Dec 23, 2011, 2:35 PM
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Don, do you want to aid during winter months when climbing crowd is minimal? If yes, there are several routes at the Gunks you can practice aid on top rope. In my personal experience, ground school doesn't do much unless you know absolutely nothing about gear.
If you decided to go up during winter, I can think of a few routes you can set up rope rope via some low 5th class climbing. As RR pointed out, Laurel and Rhododendron, bring couple of big pieces (couple of #3 and #4 should do). You can also walk over to MG area, Finger Lock or Cedar Box is finger to hand size crack all the way.
If you have a lot of time and know the area well, you can get creative by rapping into several routes, such as Ants' Line, Something Interesting, Nose Dive and Retribution. I think Apoplexy can be aided if you use hooks for the moves below.
I'm just curious about how you gonna get a partner to belay you on aid during winter?
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donwanadi
Dec 23, 2011, 5:17 PM
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Good question.....My girl is very understanding of my dedication to hobby, but multiple hours belaying in the winter might just piss her off. I guess I'll find out. 
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njrox
Dec 23, 2011, 6:08 PM
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bring a thermous full of hot chocolate and the promise of dinner at an upscale restaurant. In my experience, tickets to a broadway show work great too!
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gblauer
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Dec 23, 2011, 9:46 PM
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In addition to ground school, I would follow as many leaders as I possibly could. You will learn a lot about gear placement when you clean for competent leaders.
Seriously.
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