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other


Dec 20, 2011, 11:48 AM
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waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex
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I'm shopping for waterproof breathable jacket and pants for less then $200 per item. That eliminates GoreTex. Do you have suggestions on particular coating/laminate/membrane technologies and specific items? I've been looking at Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic stuff. Epic uses the cheap version of DryQ which I think is a a coating. Thanks!


kovacs69


Dec 20, 2011, 12:09 PM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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other wrote:
I'm shopping for waterproof breathable jacket and pants for less then $200 per item. That eliminates GoreTex. Do you have suggestions on particular coating/laminate/membrane technologies and specific items? I've been looking at Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic stuff. Epic uses the cheap version of DryQ which I think is a a coating. Thanks!

I have a Columbia rain suit and a mountain hardware jacket. They both work good. The MH one is more heavy duty than the columbia. But truth be told most of the time I use a frogg toggs rainsuit.

http://www.froggtoggs.com/#outerwear/

I actually started using frogg toggs when I went fishing in Canada. They weigh next to nothing and compress down small. I have one of the cheapest versions so if I mess it up no big deal. It is no frills but it works. I wore mine the other day on a 20 mile atv ride in the rain and the only part of me that was wet was my face and right in the crotch where the water pooled on my atv seat. Even my Columbia rain-pants leak at the crotch in that situation.

JB


markcarlson


Dec 20, 2011, 12:54 PM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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I'm not sure why you think the "cheap version of DryQ" is only the DWR coating...
I just checked the MH website, and the Epic Pants use DryQ Core. If you click on the "Specs" tab and the "DryQ Core" image, it shows that it is membrane based.

They are all going to be pretty much the same at that pricepoint. Just make sure your shell fits right and has the number of pockets and zippers you are interested in.

What activities are you going to use the shell jacket/pants for, and where? That is the next most useful thing to know after the price range you are interested in.

Edit:
Also, you can get a GORE-TEX jacket for under $200, (as well as pants,) but you might enjoy a non-GORE-TEX one more.


(This post was edited by markcarlson on Dec 20, 2011, 12:59 PM)


other


Dec 20, 2011, 1:46 PM
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Re: [markcarlson] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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I want to try it on before buying, I'm in the US. That eliminates MEC.


other


Dec 20, 2011, 1:51 PM
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Shipping from MEC in Canada to US is $19. Also all orders pass through customs and are subject to import duties, taxes, and custom processing fees.
MEC is unable to provide estimates for customs fees.
How much will that add to the cost?


markcarlson


Dec 20, 2011, 1:58 PM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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Honestly, I wouldn't worry about getting those MEC shells. Like I said, a $200 non-gore shell is probably going to be better for you than a $200 gore shell. I was just saying that a $200 budget in general does not limit you to non-gore options.

You still haven't said how you plan to use the shell jacket/pants, which is one of the most important things to know before a recommendation can be made.


markcarlson


Dec 20, 2011, 2:21 PM
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Here's another GORE-TEX jacket/pant combo that is close to $400 ($420 since the pants are on sale right now.) Again, this may or may not be suitable for your purposes. This combo would probably not hold up very well if you were climbing a chimney, or have any sort of scumming action going on, unlike a more sturdy shell.

http://www.backcountrygear.com/...a-sl-pants-mens.html

http://www.backcountrygear.com/...l-pullover-mens.html

If you aren't in a rush, you can usually get good discounts on shells at end of season sales. I got a $550 shell for 70% off once, but %30 to %50 is more common. Just be thankful you live in the US, because that's where the best online sales seem to be!


other


Dec 20, 2011, 2:23 PM
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Hiking.
Ice climbing.
Mountaineering.
Backpacking.
Around town in the rain.
Biking.


other


Dec 20, 2011, 2:29 PM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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Good deals. While I was unaware ArcTeryx took over as the alpha at the apex of the outerwear world. What do you think of brands like campmor, ll bean, edie bauer and lands end?


markcarlson


Dec 20, 2011, 2:56 PM
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OK. Since you're not skiing, that helps narrow it down. Either the Arc' Alpha SL combo I mentioned earlier (there is a full-zip jacket as well) or the Marmot Minimalist combo would be pretty good for your budget. Of course, I have heard good first-hand reviews of the DryQ stuff, but I haven't heard any reviews for this price range yet.

When you go to try them on, make sure they fit over your boots and under your harness. Put stuff in the pockets too, and see how easy they are to use.

For ice climbing, it is important that the jacket doesn't pull up too much if your arms are fully above your head. Similarly, bring your knees up and make sure your movement isn't too restricted and that your pants don't rise above your boots (unless you are going to use gaiters, then that part doesn't matter as much.)

Personally, I find Arc'teryx to fit quite well for climbing. Even their non-climbing shells fit pretty good for climbing. However, if you are not going to be using it for technical climbing very much, then you don't have to worry as much about the fit, and have more/cheaper options available.

Anyway, good luck with your purchase!


markcarlson


Dec 20, 2011, 3:14 PM
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Of those brands, I have only ever heard of Eddie Bauer. I have seen a few people with EB down jackets, but no shells yet. Usually, when I ask them about their down jackets, they mention they got it because it was on a good sale, and that it is pretty good. No glowing reviews, and no bad ones.

As far as the Arc'teryx "alpha" thing goes, I think it is just a name... they have several series: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Theta, etc. which have modifiers.


ZeroContent


Dec 20, 2011, 5:08 PM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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GoLite makes a no frills jacket called the Tumalo, should be able to snag it cheap since they'll be dumping it for next year. Marmot makes a jacket called the Precip. Both of those are great waterproof and probably more breathable than goretex. At this point goretex is way behind when it comes to WB fabric and over priced for just getting the name.


tolman_paul


Dec 20, 2011, 5:36 PM
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other wrote:
Hiking.
Ice climbing.
Mountaineering.
Backpacking.
Around town in the rain.
Biking.

You'll find that trying to get one set of gear to cover those uses just isn't going to happen.

Marmot precip is great for backpacking and biking. It's super lightweight so you can stuff it in your pack or in your cycling jersey and not notice it's there. On the down side it isn't that durable. I've worn out several pairs of the pants. They are somewhat baggy and you will be catching them on your crampons when ice climbing. Check out sierra trading post for precip, they usually have some on sale and today have a bonus 35% off coupon.

As to goretex type shells for everyday use, they shell get's dirty, it no longer lets water bead up on it's surface and hence is no longer waterproof. My other beef is no matter how well vented the shell, I've never had one that breathes well enough for me when under exertion.

Honestly I think a good winstopper soft shell with rain gear that is only put on when it's really raining is the better setup.


leapinlizard


Dec 20, 2011, 7:46 PM
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Re: [markcarlson] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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I've got quite a few of the new Eddie Bauer First Ascent line and it is all really high quality. In fact I would rate it up there with Patagonia, although maybe not quite as good, but significantly less expensive. In fact if you shop their holiday sales you can almost steal the stuff. It was all designed by world class athletes in realms like ours, such as Veisturs and Hahn. So far the only flaw I have found with it, is sometimes the fit is weird on me.


rtwilli4


Dec 21, 2011, 4:52 AM
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Get things on sale, and skip the rain pants. Other than commuting to work in the rain, I can't think of a good use for them as they are not breathable at all.

Precip is light and always on sale. Take it anywhere as an emergency waterproof shell.

Spend most of your budget on a good soft shell jacket and pants. Mountain hardwear, patagonia and marmot are my favorite brands for this type of clothing, but there are many good companies out there.


dynosore


Dec 21, 2011, 7:48 AM
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other wrote:
I'm shopping for waterproof breathable jacket and pants for less then $200 per item. That eliminates GoreTex. Do you have suggestions on particular coating/laminate/membrane technologies and specific items? I've been looking at Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic stuff. Epic uses the cheap version of DryQ which I think is a a coating. Thanks!

Helly Hansen is all you need to know. I've owned Arcteryx, NF, MH, Marmut, Mammut, you name it. Nothing subjects you to sideways cold rain and sweating like reeling in a 100 lb. halibut out on the gulf of Alaska, and HH is all I will wear out there, period. I know their Helly Tech fabric was (and maybe still is) the most breathable highly waterproof fabric that you could get according to military testing. They have an outlet tab on their website.


tolman_paul


Dec 21, 2011, 9:33 AM
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Re: [dynosore] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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This is what I wear fishing and when I need to keep water out.



It is not my first choice for all the activities to op listed, though if hiking through chest high wet grass in a storm it would be my hands down choice. Nor would I want to subject waterproof breathable fabrics to fish slime.

I've been using goretex off and on for over 30 years, and it has always underperformed for me. It's never been truly waterproof, and it's never breathed well enough to keep up with my prespiration. I've tried products from every maker out there.

At least for me, I've given up on thinking that there is a clothing product that will keep me dry. I'll either be wet from precipitation or prespiration. The key is staying warm.


(This post was edited by tolman_paul on Dec 21, 2011, 9:38 AM)


aprice00


Dec 21, 2011, 9:34 AM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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My go-to shell pants are the Ground Virtual pants. They were one of outside magazine's 2008 gear of the year peices and are only 11oz. I've never climbed in them but wouldn't hesitate to.


Player


Dec 21, 2011, 6:42 PM
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Check out Marmot's membrain strata


other


Dec 21, 2011, 7:50 PM
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thanks for all the input guys! [In reply to]
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Thanks for the input, its very helpful.


sp115


Dec 22, 2011, 8:31 AM
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Re: [dynosore] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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dynosore wrote:
other wrote:
I'm shopping for waterproof breathable jacket and pants for less then $200 per item. That eliminates GoreTex. Do you have suggestions on particular coating/laminate/membrane technologies and specific items? I've been looking at Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic stuff. Epic uses the cheap version of DryQ which I think is a a coating. Thanks!

Helly Hansen is all you need to know. I've owned Arcteryx, NF, MH, Marmut, Mammut, you name it. Nothing subjects you to sideways cold rain and sweating like reeling in a 100 lb. halibut out on the gulf of Alaska, and HH is all I will wear out there, period. I know their Helly Tech fabric was (and maybe still is) the most breathable highly waterproof fabric that you could get according to military testing. They have an outlet tab on their website.

I must have missed the part where he listed halibut fishing aa an intended activity.

My Precip was cheap, is sort of breathable, and wore out quickly. My Arc'teryx Alpha SL was moderately expensive, sort of breathable, and looks absolutely brand new after 3 years of occasional use.

Halibut jokes aside, I know nothing of Helly Hansen, but it certainly doesn't appear to be cheap crap.


(This post was edited by sp115 on Dec 22, 2011, 8:31 AM)


Scooter12ga


Dec 22, 2011, 9:40 AM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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Mont-Bell makes really nice stuff. They fit athletic, are super lightweight, top quality stitching, and their 3-layer membrane fabric is among the best I've used - comparable to Goretex XCR or Pro Shell.

Their gear tends to be a bit minimalist, though, so if you're looking for a ton of pockets, or drawstrings everywhere, you might be disappointed. If on the other hand, you like to go ultra-light, then I think you'll be impressed.

Their prices are super competitive, too. I own a down jacket, down pants, shell pants, and their EXP sleeping bag, and I've used them steadily over the last 4 years and I've never been disappointed.


SylviaSmile


Dec 22, 2011, 9:50 AM
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Re: [other] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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other wrote:
I'm shopping for waterproof breathable jacket and pants for less then $200 per item. That eliminates GoreTex. Do you have suggestions on particular coating/laminate/membrane technologies and specific items? I've been looking at Marmot Precip and Mountain Hardwear Epic stuff. Epic uses the cheap version of DryQ which I think is a a coating. Thanks!

I have the Marmot Precip and like it a lot (am wearing it today, in fact), but I haven't used it extensively for climbing. It's very breathable for running and hiking, though! I could see why the previous poster said it wore out quickly, as it's quite thin and I could see rubbing against rocks wearing down the fabric. You might want to pay the extra $$ for ArcTeryx if you want something that's going to last.


gunkiemike


Dec 24, 2011, 5:07 PM
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Re: [SylviaSmile] waterproof breathable thats NOT goretex [In reply to]
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I have three Precip jackets here, and all of them have lost the coating at the neck where the hood folds down. This happens after fewer than 30 days of use. Great jackets when new but not a good investment IMO.


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