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Rebolting - Advice Requested
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Appelkoos


Jan 3, 2012, 6:43 PM
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Rebolting - Advice Requested
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Hi,

I spent part of this weekend doing some rebolting.

One of the anchors in question is like the proverbial curit's egg - bad in parts. The hangars have hardware chains connected to them, with a screwgate linking the hardware chains. The chains are rusting, and the screwgate has serious exfoliation corrosion. However neither the bolts nor the hangars exhibit any visible signs of wear.

The anchors are conveniently located for clipping, and re-drilling would involve substantial relocation. An easier solution would be replace the hangars with ring anchors, removing the need for the hardware lower-offs.

I've got two questions:
1) Is there any reason NOT to simply replace the hangar (i.e. drilling new anchors instead) ?
2) I'm concerned about inducing galvanic corrosion in the bolt or the hangar. The existing hangars are stamped "LUCKY" "INOX" "25kN". I can't find any ring anchors on the product list at the Edelrid/Lucky website. Luck/Edelrid seem to only make bolts in 304 steel. Would there be any problems in using 304 ring anchors from other manufacturers (e.g. Fixe #040).

Thanks for your responses.

PS - anchors concernd are on the second pitch of "Kick a Cloud" at White Wall, Kuala Lumpur.


USnavy


Jan 4, 2012, 12:01 AM
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Re: [Appelkoos] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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Appelkoos wrote:
I've got two questions:
1) Is there any reason NOT to simply replace the hangar (i.e. drilling new anchors instead) ?
2) I'm concerned about inducing galvanic corrosion in the bolt or the hangar. The existing hangars are stamped "LUCKY" "INOX" "25kN". I can't find any ring anchors on the product list at the Edelrid/Lucky website. Luck/Edelrid seem to only make bolts in 304 steel. Would there be any problems in using 304 ring anchors from other manufacturers (e.g. Fixe #040).

Thanks for your responses.

PS - anchors concernd are on the second pitch of "Kick a Cloud" at White Wall, Kuala Lumpur.

Well assuming the bolts are in good shape, I am not aware of any reason why you could not reuse the bolts and just replace the bolt hanger. However you have to consider the type of bolt being used. Some bolts are harder to remove and reuse. Wedge bolts only require you to remove the nut; sleeve bolts like the Power-Bolt may require you to remove the entire bolt.

As far as galvanic corrosion goes, mixing stainless parts from different manufacturers is not an issue. Using a 304 SS bolt from Fixe and a 304 hanger from say Metolius is not going to induce galvanic corrosion. Galvanic corrosion occurs when metals of different chemical composition are in contact with each other for an extended period of time. The most common example of galvanic corrosion would be the use of a stainless steel hanger with a zinc plated or carbon steel bolt. The stainless steel hanger would induce galvanic corrosion of the plated steel or carbon steel bolt.

Inox is short for inoxydable with is a French synonym for stainless, so we know the old hangers are stainless steel. Are there any visible signs of corrosion on the bolt? If the anchor has been in place for a long time and there are no signs of corrosion on the bolt, its probable that the bolt is made out of stainless steel (although not an absolute guarantee.)

However, what worries me the most is the exfoliation corrosion on the aluminum carabiner. Exfoliation corrosion in climbing gear is most commonly caused by exposure to chlorides such as salt water. Are the anchors being used in a marine environment or in an area where there are chlorides present in runoff water? I am assuming they are if they are being used in Kuala Lumpur, which is right next to the ocean. If they are, you should be using titanium bolts with grade 316 stainless lower offs or chain. At the absolute least you need to be using all grade 316 stainless steel material.


acorneau


Jan 4, 2012, 5:47 AM
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Re: [USnavy] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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USnavy wrote:
However, what worries me the most is the exfoliation corrosion on the aluminum carabiner.


When the OP stated "screwgate" I assumed he was speaking of a quicklink, not a standard screwgate carabiner.

Perhaps the OP could clarify?


tolman_paul


Jan 4, 2012, 9:21 AM
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Re: [Appelkoos] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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One caveat with replacing hangers is often times the thread of the bolt is damaged when it is driven in with the hammer. What you might find is that when trying to remove the nut from the bolt to change hangers is that the nut won't come off, and you might end up turning the bolt into a spinner.

So if you do plan to replace the hanger, have a drill and new bolts with you as well as a means of removing the old bolt. There is nothing worse then trying to "fix" an anchor and leaving it worse than when you found it.


USnavy


Jan 4, 2012, 10:27 PM
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Re: [acorneau] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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acorneau wrote:
USnavy wrote:
However, what worries me the most is the exfoliation corrosion on the aluminum carabiner.


When the OP stated "screwgate" I assumed he was speaking of a quicklink, not a standard screwgate carabiner.

Perhaps the OP could clarify?
Maybe, but I have never heard of exfoliation corrosion occurring in stainless steel climbing related gear. I suppose its possible, but every case of exfoliation corrosion I have seen, read about or head about was related to aluminum parts. So I assumed he was talking about a biner. If he is talking about a steel part, I would very much like to see a picture.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 4, 2012, 10:29 PM)


Partner cracklover


Jan 5, 2012, 8:14 AM
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Re: [Appelkoos] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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Appelkoos wrote:
Hi,

I spent part of this weekend doing some rebolting.

One of the anchors in question is like the proverbial curit's egg - bad in parts. The hangars have hardware chains connected to them, with a screwgate linking the hardware chains. The chains are rusting, and the screwgate has serious exfoliation corrosion. However neither the bolts nor the hangars exhibit any visible signs of wear.

The anchors are conveniently located for clipping, and re-drilling would involve substantial relocation. An easier solution would be replace the hangars with ring anchors, removing the need for the hardware lower-offs.

I've got two questions:
1) Is there any reason NOT to simply replace the hangar (i.e. drilling new anchors instead) ?
2) I'm concerned about inducing galvanic corrosion in the bolt or the hangar. The existing hangars are stamped "LUCKY" "INOX" "25kN". I can't find any ring anchors on the product list at the Edelrid/Lucky website. Luck/Edelrid seem to only make bolts in 304 steel. Would there be any problems in using 304 ring anchors from other manufacturers (e.g. Fixe #040).

Thanks for your responses.

PS - anchors concernd are on the second pitch of "Kick a Cloud" at White Wall, Kuala Lumpur.

Why on earth are you messing with the bolts at all? This makes no sense to me. It seems that you've stated very clearly that the bolts and hangers are fine. The reason why the chain and screwlinks are there is to be replaceable. It sounds like they need to be replaced... so replace them.

If a couple of wrenches, a hammer, and a can of some kind of penetrating lubricant are not enough to free the stuck screwlinks, a bolt-cutter should do the trick.

Don't fuck with bolts that have nothing wrong with them. You fuck them up, and you could be creating a dangerous situation for no good reason.

GO


(This post was edited by cracklover on Jan 5, 2012, 8:16 AM)


rocknice2


Jan 5, 2012, 6:44 PM
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Re: [cracklover] Rebolting - Advice Requested [In reply to]
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I agree with cracklover. If the bolts and hanger are good don't mess with them.
Rusted chains means nothing without more info. What size are they? is it just surface rust or are they rusty like an old Pinto.
Exfoliation on the screw gate? What do you mean? The zinc plating is flacking off the quicklink? An aluminium biner is flacking apart?

If needed replace the chains and the quicklink.


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