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Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed??
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ZeroContent


Jan 4, 2012, 7:42 PM
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Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed??
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So I just noticed when I was looking at the new Fixe Aliens on their site the strength ratings are listed as "Maximum" shouldn't the minimum be listed?
http://www.fixehardware.com/aliens-cams.htm

If you look at this site they have min and max listed.
http://www.techrock.es/...le=details&rID=5

So when I first saw the chart and it said that the black size was 9kn for a 8-14mm piece I thought that was amazing when everyone else is in the 5kn range for that size. Then I saw the min on TechRock is 5kn. So in short isn't Fixe's listing a bit misleading/dangerous?


jt512


Jan 4, 2012, 7:49 PM
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Re: [ZeroContent] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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ZeroContent wrote:
So I just noticed when I was looking at the new Fixe Aliens on their site the strength ratings are listed as "Maximum" shouldn't the minimum be listed?
http://www.fixehardware.com/aliens-cams.htm

If you look at this site they have min and max listed.
http://www.techrock.es/...le=details&rID=5

So when I first saw the chart and it said that the black size was 9kn for a 8-14mm piece I thought that was amazing when everyone else is in the 5kn range for that size. Then I saw the min on TechRock is 5kn. So in short isn't Fixe's listing a bit misleading/dangerous?

It seems to me that the minimum strength would be 0. Any other claimed minimum strength would be misleading.

Jay


meanandugly


Jan 4, 2012, 8:56 PM
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Re: [ZeroContent] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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I would have to agree with Jay, unless we get into negative numbers.


USnavy


Jan 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Re: [ZeroContent] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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The strength ratings listed on Fixe USA's website are inaccurate. The Aliens never really held what they were rated for, they often failed below their rating. The real manufacturer of Aliens, Fixe Faders, rates the blue Alien at 5 kN. Its stamped right on the unit, I can show you a picture of it if you want. You need to keep in mind Fixe USA is not the real Fixe Faders and they dont manufacturer Aliens, they only sell them. Fixe USA is owned and operated by Kevin Daniels and he does his own thing. I have seen the real Aliens at the Fixe Faders plant in Spain and they are rated lower than what the Fixe USA site claims. I believe the highest any of the cams were rated for was 10 kN, but they were only making the blue through grey. Its possible if they make the gold and above sizes in the future, they may have a rating above 10 kN.

As to why the Fixe Faders has a minimum strength on their website, I have no idea. Maybe they are trying to imply the breaking strength of the Aliens fluctuate a lot and they are giving you the range they fall within, I dont know. But I can tell you I saw a blue and grey Alien off the line and they were stamped 5 kN and 10 kN accordingly.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Jan 4, 2012, 10:25 PM)


Urban_Cowboy


Jan 5, 2012, 2:16 AM
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Re: [ZeroContent] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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I would expect the reasoning behind the "maximum" strength has to do with a "potential" holding power. For it to reach that potential, the placement would have to be ideal.

Absolute perfect granite crack with a flawless placement: 100% holding power?

Accidentally dropped into an over-sized trough of loose potting soil: not so much? Angelic


(This post was edited by Urban_Cowboy on Jan 5, 2012, 2:17 AM)


ZeroContent


Jan 5, 2012, 7:31 AM
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Re: [jt512] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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Well I'd assume that isn't the holding power rating, it should be the break strength of the device. Biners that are rated at 24kn mean they should hold a minimum of 24kn before breaking.


shockabuku


Jan 5, 2012, 7:54 AM
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Re: [ZeroContent] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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ZeroContent wrote:
Well I'd assume that isn't the holding power rating, it should be the break strength of the device. Biners that are rated at 24kn mean they should hold a minimum of 24kn before breaking.

But a biner doesn't fail because it falls off the thing it's attached to. Cams can just fall out because you place them poorly. The typical meaningful info that a cam manufacturer specifies is the strength of the construction of the device, i.e. ideal placement. If you have a placement that doesn't fail and allows maximum holding power of the cam - you should get that strength. If you place the cam poorly, it may just pull out as soon as you weight it. So minimum strength of the device in use depends on how well you place it.

I suppose you want to know the distribution of the tested strength of this type of cam over many tests? Generally they are stronger than the strength they're stamped with - I think they usually stamp with a lower bound.


ZeroContent


Jan 5, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Re: [shockabuku] Shouldn't Minimum Strength Be Listed?? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
I suppose you want to know the distribution of the tested strength of this type of cam over many tests? Generally they are stronger than the strength they're stamped with - I think they usually stamp with a lower bound.

Right, so I was just pointing out that if you looked quickly at the chart the alien has a much higher rating than it's other brand counter parts when in actuality they're using two different measurements that's all.


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