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Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point.
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donwanadi


Jan 5, 2012, 1:51 PM
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Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point.
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Is there a compelling reason to use an eight on a bight for a power point instead of an overhand on a bight? I've often seen both mentioned with the eight seemingly the preferred knot.

Example: You climb a sport pitch and reach a 2 bolt anchor. Using the rope, you clove into the first bolt. With the now slack side of the rope you tie an eight on a bight for a power point and another for the second bolt.


(This post was edited by donwanadi on Jan 5, 2012, 1:56 PM)


jeepnphreak


Jan 5, 2012, 2:05 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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The 8 on a bite takes more rope, but its easier to untie if loaded.

an over hand on a bit take less rope to tie but it harder to untie when loaded.

the 8 is preferred most of the time, but if you are running short on cord than an over hand is fine to use.

For a sport route you most likely will not have an issue with the amount of rope needed for an anchor. but with trad and ice where the anchor points (cracks) can be different distances apart and using trees if can use up your cord length pretty fast.


(This post was edited by jeepnphreak on Jan 5, 2012, 2:10 PM)


donwanadi


Jan 5, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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jeepnphreak wrote:
The 8 on a bite takes more rope, but its easier to untie if loaded.

an over hand on a bit take less rope to tie but it harder to untie when loaded.

the 8 is preferred most of the time, but if you are running short on cored than an over hand is fine to use.

Aha! Thank you sir!


bearbreeder


Jan 5, 2012, 2:56 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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i simply use a clove on the master biner


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Jan 5, 2012, 2:57 PM)


marc801


Jan 5, 2012, 3:13 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
Example: You climb a sport pitch and reach a 2 bolt anchor. Using the rope, you clove into the first bolt. With the now slack side of the rope you tie an eight on a bight for a power point and another for the second bolt.
No, on a sport route you clip a quickdraw to each bolt, clip the rope in, and lower off. If you're last, you anchor to each bolt, thread your rope through the lower-off points, retie, test with your belayer holding your weight, clean your anchor and lower*. No masterbation points, knots, etc. needed.

*: Note - not all necessary steps exhaustively listed.


billl7


Jan 5, 2012, 9:52 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
Is there a compelling reason to use an eight on a bight for a power point instead of an overhand on a bight? I've often seen both mentioned with the eight seemingly the preferred knot.

Example: You climb a sport pitch and reach a 2 bolt anchor. Using the rope, you clove into the first bolt. With the now slack side of the rope you tie an eight on a bight for a power point and another for the second bolt.


By slack side of the rope, I assume you mean on the other side of the clove from your tie-in point ...

In your example, I don't feel strongly about using an eight or an overhand. The chances of it getting loaded are quite remote. More generally, a figure 8 is stronger than an overhand - I usually tie the former if cord is in ample supply.

Bill


sbaclimber


Jan 5, 2012, 11:40 PM
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Re: [marc801] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
Example: You climb a sport pitch and reach a 2 bolt anchor. Using the rope, you clove into the first bolt. With the now slack side of the rope you tie an eight on a bight for a power point and another for the second bolt.
No, on a sport route you clip a quickdraw to each bolt, clip the rope in, and lower off.
Are you implying that there are no multi-pitch sport routes!?


ashmoo


Jan 6, 2012, 4:50 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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In your example you say that you tie the powerpoint and then tie in to the 2nd bolt. This is incorrect, you should tie into the anchors first and then tie the powerpoint so that it is equalised for the direction of pull.


(This post was edited by ashmoo on Jan 6, 2012, 4:56 AM)


billl7


Jan 6, 2012, 6:34 AM
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Re: [ashmoo] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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ashmoo wrote:
In your example you say that you tie the powerpoint and then tie in to the 2nd bolt. This is incorrect, you should tie into the anchors first and then tie the powerpoint so that it is equalised for the direction of pull.
Good point. I suspect the OP unknowingly misused the term "power point". It is the "Beginners" forum after all.

To don: For most leaders and books on anchoring that I know, a power point is usually some kind of loop that anyone can be clipped into and thereby be "properly" connected to all the pieces of a belay anchor. Usually the powerpoint (PP) is formed in the anchor rigging in a way that favors good belay-anchor characteristics including no single point of failure, PP equalized to individual pieces of pro (e.g., a bolt), and PP non-extending upon failure of one piece or leg of the anchor rigging.

What you described in the example was just a way to attach the rope to a bolt as part of anchoring yourself, rather than a way to form a "power point.

Bill L


blueeyedclimber


Jan 6, 2012, 7:36 AM
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Re: [jeepnphreak] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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jeepnphreak wrote:
The 8 on a bite takes more rope, but its easier to untie if loaded.

Question answered. Thread done.

Of course, that will not stop people from repeating answers, straying off topic, calling complete strangers douchebags, and coming up with overly complicated alternative solutions to problems that never existed.

Carry on.

Josh


jakedatc


Jan 6, 2012, 8:18 AM
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Re: [sbaclimber] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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sbaclimber wrote:
marc801 wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
Example: You climb a sport pitch and reach a 2 bolt anchor. Using the rope, you clove into the first bolt. With the now slack side of the rope you tie an eight on a bight for a power point and another for the second bolt.
No, on a sport route you clip a quickdraw to each bolt, clip the rope in, and lower off.
Are you implying that there are no multi-pitch sport routes!?

clip 2 draws, clove into 1+ bolt with the rope.. belay redirected through the draws. good to go.


njrox


Jan 6, 2012, 8:40 AM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
jeepnphreak wrote:
The 8 on a bite takes more rope, but its easier to untie if loaded.

Question answered. Thread done.

Of course, that will not stop people from repeating answers, straying off topic, calling complete strangers douchebags, and coming up with overly complicated alternative solutions to problems that never existed.

Carry on.

Josh

STFU N00B! Your profile says you're a family man who climbs 5.11's all over the North East. Maybe after you've done some real climbing then you can give an opinion.


blueeyedclimber


Jan 6, 2012, 8:52 AM
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Re: [njrox] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
blueeyedclimber wrote:
jeepnphreak wrote:
The 8 on a bite takes more rope, but its easier to untie if loaded.

Question answered. Thread done.

Of course, that will not stop people from repeating answers, straying off topic, calling complete strangers douchebags, and coming up with overly complicated alternative solutions to problems that never existed.

Carry on.

Josh

STFU N00B! Your profile says you're a family man who climbs 5.11's all over the North East. Maybe after you've done some real climbing then you can give an opinion.

Do you mean like the 5.4 toprope in your profile pic?

Cool

Josh


njrox


Jan 6, 2012, 8:57 AM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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I'll have you know that it was a Gunks 5.4...which is like a 5.6 anywhere else. Tongue


jakedatc


Jan 6, 2012, 9:13 AM
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Re: [njrox] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
I'll have you know that it was a Gunks 5.4...which is like a 5.6 anywhere else. Tongue

no... it's not.

that is "nice crack climb" and you are practically being hauled up it with the amount of tension in the rope ;) also why are you carrying like 9 cordalettes on a 35' top rope with a walk off decent?

Cool Wink


(This post was edited by jakedatc on Jan 6, 2012, 9:18 AM)


njrox


Jan 6, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Re: [jakedatc] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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Yes, I know. It was a joke. Along with my STFU N00B remark to Blue Eyes.

Im carrying my guides cordellettes. I was actually doing a Top Rope set-up class with Alpine Endeavors that day. My first outdoor instruction. My first trip to the Gunks. Im still a pretty fresh climber but that picture of me is when I was like brand new to climbing. I think it was like my third time climbing outside?


blueeyedclimber


Jan 6, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Re: [njrox] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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njrox wrote:
Yes, I know. It was a joke. Along with my STFU N00B remark to Blue Eyes.

Im carrying my guides cordellettes. I was actually doing a Top Rope set-up class with Alpine Endeavors that day. My first outdoor instruction. My first trip to the Gunks. Im still a pretty fresh climber but that picture of me is when I was like brand new to climbing. I think it was like my third time climbing outside?

Don't apologize for your n00bness. Be proud of it! You will get more experience. Jake will ALWAYS be a jerk! Haha! Tongue

Josh


shimanilami


Jan 6, 2012, 5:03 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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Try untying an overhand knot after hanging a couple of pigs and ledges on it. You will gain a new appreciation for a figure-8, figure-9, and beyond.

But if you're just putting something there as a backup, then do whatever is quickest. That said, I've tied so many figure-8's, it's hard-wired into my muscle memory. It would probably take me longer to tie an overhand knot because I'd actually have to think about what I was doing.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jan 9, 2012, 3:02 PM
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Re: [blueeyedclimber] Overhand on a bight vs 8 on a bight for power point. [In reply to]
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blueeyedclimber wrote:
njrox wrote:
Yes, I know. It was a joke. Along with my STFU N00B remark to Blue Eyes.

Im carrying my guides cordellettes. I was actually doing a Top Rope set-up class with Alpine Endeavors that day. My first outdoor instruction. My first trip to the Gunks. Im still a pretty fresh climber but that picture of me is when I was like brand new to climbing. I think it was like my third time climbing outside?

Don't apologize for your n00bness. Be proud of it! You will get more experience. Jake will ALWAYS be a jerk! Haha! Tongue

Josh

Shouldn't you have called Jake a douchebag?


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