Forums: Climbing Information: Beginners:
Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Beginners

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


Rmsyll2


Jan 28, 2012, 7:37 AM
Post #1 of 65 (12035 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

http://ClimbPilotNC.us/RiggingGalleries.htm

No comments, just photos of what people do at two bolted rim anchors for single-pitch Top-rope routes at one location. You will see rope, cord, webbing, sewn slings, without and with equalization static or dynamic, with and without rub on the rocks; one case of natural, and one of face rings. Collection is increasing and irregularly updated.

.


sittingduck


Jan 28, 2012, 7:54 AM
Post #2 of 65 (12026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 19, 2003
Posts: 338

Re: [Rmsyll2] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

That's great, every crag should have a page like that.


macblaze


Jan 28, 2012, 9:56 AM
Post #3 of 65 (11985 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 807

Re: [Rmsyll2] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post



Can I ask a stupid question? I've only come across anchors like this once, and while the final anchor was solid, the process was nothing short of comical. Complete with rapping off trees and ropes and anchors everywhere. And then there was cleaning the thing... I must of walked up and down more times than I climbed it.

So what's the 'standard' procedure for a toprope anchor that is over an edge? Is there one?

Edit: Oh and there were no rap rings, so no, I wasn't going to rap off just the hangers...


(This post was edited by macblaze on Jan 28, 2012, 10:01 AM)


Traches


Jan 28, 2012, 11:36 AM
Post #4 of 65 (11955 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 83

Re: [Rmsyll2] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Nice link!

Call me a noob, but I have no experience setting up top rope anchors. Quite a few of these look like if one of the bolts were to pull out, they'd shock load the other one or fail outright. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using 2?


marc801


Jan 28, 2012, 5:53 PM
Post #5 of 65 (11892 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2770

Re: [Traches] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Traches wrote:
Quite a few of these look like if one of the bolts were to pull out,...
In good rock this basically doesn't happen. It's an over-emphasized concern among beginners.


marc801


Jan 28, 2012, 5:56 PM
Post #6 of 65 (11889 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2770

Re: [Rmsyll2] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Rmsyll2 wrote:
http://ClimbPilotNC.us/RiggingGalleries.htm

No comments, just photos of what people do at two bolted rim anchors for single-pitch Top-rope routes at one location. You will see rope, cord, webbing, sewn slings, without and with equalization static or dynamic, with and without rub on the rocks; one case of natural, and one of face rings. Collection is increasing and irregularly updated.

.
I don't get the point of it.


Traches


Jan 28, 2012, 8:27 PM
Post #7 of 65 (11854 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 83

Re: [marc801] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marc801 wrote:
Traches wrote:
Quite a few of these look like if one of the bolts were to pull out,...
In good rock this basically doesn't happen. It's an over-emphasized concern among beginners.

I realize that, you could hang my truck from most bolts... But if your anchor system is set up to fail if either bolt fails, what do you gain by using 2?

Examples-





dan2see


Jan 28, 2012, 9:32 PM
Post #8 of 65 (11842 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 28, 2006
Posts: 1497

Re: [macblaze] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

macblaze wrote:


Can I ask a stupid question? I've only come across anchors like this once, and while the final anchor was solid, the process was nothing short of comical. Complete with rapping off trees and ropes and anchors everywhere. And then there was cleaning the thing... I must of walked up and down more times than I climbed it.

So what's the 'standard' procedure for a toprope anchor that is over an edge? Is there one?

Edit: Oh and there were no rap rings, so no, I wasn't going to rap off just the hangers...

In most of the routes in the Heart Creek crags, the anchor is set well below the top of the cliff. Most ropes are 60 meters, so the bolts have to be less than 30 meters high, even though the cliff is 40-50 meters to the top. There is no walk-off, it's all mountain above.

So the only way to get to those anchors is to lead from the bottom. The only way to clean them is to climb, clean, and rap.


marc801


Jan 28, 2012, 10:23 PM
Post #9 of 65 (11831 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2770

Re: [Traches] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Traches wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Traches wrote:
Quite a few of these look like if one of the bolts were to pull out,...
In good rock this basically doesn't happen. It's an over-emphasized concern among beginners.

I realize that, you could hang my truck from most bolts... But if your anchor system is set up to fail if either bolt fails, what do you gain by using 2?

Examples-
[img]http://climbpilotnc.us/ClimbingAreas/Dudes/HowdyDudette%20anchor18%20sm.jpg
[/img]

[img]http://climbpilotnc.us/ClimbingAreas/Dudes/HowdyDudette%20anchor19%20sm.jpg[/img]

That wasn't your original question, which asked about the ever feared shockloading.


rnevius


Jan 28, 2012, 10:47 PM
Post #10 of 65 (11826 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 31, 2010
Posts: 58

Re: [Traches] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Traches,

I am missing your point...the first anchor pictured looks like a simple "sliding X" configuration. The second looks like a "quad." Both are completely standard...

Edit: On second glance, it looks like you are also concerned about shock loading in each of these situations. While none should fail outright if one of the bolts was to become compromised, "limiter" knots on the first case wouldn't be a bad idea. The quad has limiter knots by design, which would reduce the shock load in the case of bolt failure.


(This post was edited by rnevius on Jan 28, 2012, 10:54 PM)


Partner j_ung


Jan 29, 2012, 6:52 AM
Post #11 of 65 (11763 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18689

Re: [Traches] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Traches wrote:
Nice link!

Call me a noob, but I have no experience setting up top rope anchors. Quite a few of these look like if one of the bolts were to pull out, they'd shock load the other one or fail outright. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using 2?

I was pleasantly surprised that, of the few I looking through, I didn't see anything really fucked up.


Partner j_ung


Jan 29, 2012, 6:55 AM
Post #12 of 65 (11761 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18689

Re: [macblaze] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

macblaze wrote:


Can I ask a stupid question? I've only come across anchors like this once, and while the final anchor was solid, the process was nothing short of comical. Complete with rapping off trees and ropes and anchors everywhere. And then there was cleaning the thing... I must of walked up and down more times than I climbed it.

So what's the 'standard' procedure for a toprope anchor that is over an edge? Is there one?

Edit: Oh and there were no rap rings, so no, I wasn't going to rap off just the hangers...

Yes, there is a standard procedure. In a nutshell...

Bring a length of static rope and a Gri-gri with you to the crag. Fix the rope to a BFT, and then rap over the edge with the Gri-gri. Set up your anchor and then use the Gri-gri to ascend the rope back to the top. Make sure you have a knot in the rope below you to back up the Gri-gri.


(This post was edited by j_ung on Jan 29, 2012, 6:56 AM)


Traches


Jan 29, 2012, 9:06 AM
Post #13 of 65 (11717 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 26, 2012
Posts: 83

Re: [rnevius] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Okay, guess I'm just looking at them wrong. It's tough to tell from just a picture how it works, and like I said, I have no experience setting them up.


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jan 29, 2012, 2:55 PM
Post #14 of 65 (11669 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Re: [j_ung] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

j_ung wrote:
I was pleasantly surprised that, of the few I looking through, I didn't see anything really fucked up.

Can you help a n00b and give me your feedback on this one:




marc801


Jan 29, 2012, 3:19 PM
Post #15 of 65 (11661 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 2770

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
j_ung wrote:
I was pleasantly surprised that, of the few I looking through, I didn't see anything really fucked up.

Can you help a n00b and give me your feedback on this one:

[image]http://climbpilotnc.us/ClimbingAreas/ParkingLot/ThinUpper%20anchors6a%20sm.jpg[/image]
Well, it's pretty boring to go through all of them.

I can't tell what's going on with the cluster on the bottom, but the one at the top of the photo is a textbook way to break a biner.


Gmburns2000


Jan 29, 2012, 4:15 PM
Post #16 of 65 (11649 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15177

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
j_ung wrote:
I was pleasantly surprised that, of the few I looking through, I didn't see anything really fucked up.

Can you help a n00b and give me your feedback on this one:


I don't know what that red thing is in the lower left-hand corner, but whatever it is it'd scare the crap out of me for sure.

Otherwise...Unimpressed


jt512


Jan 29, 2012, 5:09 PM
Post #17 of 65 (11636 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 11, 2001
Posts: 21893

Re: [macblaze] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

macblaze wrote:


Can I ask a stupid question? I've only come across anchors like this once, and while the final anchor was solid, the process was nothing short of comical. Complete with rapping off trees and ropes and anchors everywhere. And then there was cleaning the thing... I must of walked up and down more times than I climbed it.

So what's the 'standard' procedure for a toprope anchor that is over an edge? Is there one?

It looks like someone intended that route to be led.

Jay


(This post was edited by jt512 on Jan 29, 2012, 8:57 PM)


Rmsyll2


Jan 29, 2012, 8:39 PM
Post #18 of 65 (11591 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Reply: [macblaze] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

As in another reply, face anchors are for lead routes, meaning starting from the bottom with no rope until the leader puts it in something. That route can be led with gear, so does have rappel rings mounted on the face. Two quick-draws will do for such anchors. It is usually done as top-rope, because the anchors can be reached by laying on one's belly, so the rigging is usually what TR climbers carry.

.


Rmsyll2


Jan 29, 2012, 8:48 PM
Post #19 of 65 (11587 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Reply: [Traches] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

One aspect of using two anchors is dividing the load on your gear and the anchor. That is an advantage of equalization, without which the load is not divided.

.


Rmsyll2


Jan 29, 2012, 9:05 PM
Post #20 of 65 (11577 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Reply: [rnevius] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rnevius wrote:
the first anchor pictured looks like a simple "sliding X" configuration. The second looks like a "quad."

Seeing the crossing that makes a Sliding X is difficult sometimes; but that is probably correct there. An Equalette and a Quadralette are noticed by seeing the two stop-knots instead of a single larger Cordelette knot. That one is short, so that it works at numerous anchors at this place, and is easily extended with pairs of something added. That one is used as 3/1, which is most common at that location. The post about various ways to set the belay carabiners was mostly flamed.

.


Rmsyll2


Jan 29, 2012, 9:16 PM
Post #21 of 65 (11573 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Toast_in_the_Machine wrote:
Can you help a n00b and give me your feedback on this one

Good eye. The upper carabiner is "cross-loaded", meaning sideways, not longways. Each carabiner has a strength rating for that, and is not as good as you want. That happens rather commonly when such a rig is used for rappelling, as is common at that route, which is why it is included in the gallery for that route. I switched it around after taking the photo.

The red cord is a single loop (see single Fisherman's knot) with a Cordelette knot. The yellow webbing is on its own carabiner, because it is either a back-up line, or a tie-in and maybe for starting the rappel. Using a third back-up line is fairly common at that location, and is seen at other galleries.

.


guangzhou


Jan 29, 2012, 9:37 PM
Post #22 of 65 (11563 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [Rmsyll2] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Nice hodgepodges of system for sure.

As for comments on two bolts being a convenience, the bottom line is that sometime bolts do fails, so the system should be ready if one bolt does fail.

Looking at the photos posted in this thread, most people are making the system much more complicated than it needs to be. One part SERENE leaves out is the KISS idea. Keep things simple.


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Jan 29, 2012, 9:47 PM)


Rmsyll2


Jan 29, 2012, 9:43 PM
Post #23 of 65 (11562 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 6, 2010
Posts: 266

Reply: [j_ung] [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

j_ung wrote:
I was pleasantly surprised that, of the few I looking through, I didn't see anything really fucked up.

That is because they are not included in the galleries. I've done some re-rigging, too, usually accepted cheerfully as a lesson. There is, however, a collection for "death triangle", and putting webbing through the hanger eye. The former includes a Boy Scout leader's rigging; the latter includes a college outdoor program leader, see Att'd. What made me laugh there was the trouble to rig a back-up and cover for the edge, then neglect something as simple as a carabiner at the hangers. I spoke with him, and he said that was how they did it where he climbed.

I've not seen anything that was going to kill anyone, and know of no such accident at that location, but do support the principles of safety suggested by John Long et alia.

.
Attachments: P1130413 sm.JPG (134 KB)


bearbreeder


Jan 29, 2012, 9:56 PM
Post #24 of 65 (11557 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 1, 2009
Posts: 1960

Re: [guangzhou] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

why top rope anchors are sooo complicated i have no idea ...

its amazing how some people can go on and on over top rope anchors ...

Tongue


guangzhou


Jan 30, 2012, 2:20 AM
Post #25 of 65 (11521 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [bearbreeder] Top-rope rigging at two rim bolts [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

bearbreeder wrote:
why top rope anchors are sooo complicated i have no idea ...

its amazing how some people can go on and on over top rope anchors ...

Tongue
Sly

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Beginners

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook