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pinktricam
Jan 29, 2012, 5:09 PM
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Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings
WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother. |
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dr_feelgood
Jan 29, 2012, 6:51 PM
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pinktricam wrote: Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother.
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curt
Jan 29, 2012, 7:11 PM
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dr_feelgood wrote: pinktricam wrote: Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother. You're a racist fuck.
Considering Pinky's own unnatural compulsion to control the behavior of other people, I'm actually somewhat surprised he has a problem with this.
Curt
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dan2see
Jan 29, 2012, 7:54 PM
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As a Canadian of long standing, I found this case, and the trial, very interesting.
Canada is a "Land of Immigrants". I have seen wave after wave of immigration to our country, and I've seen how the new cultures adapt to the existing Canadians, and eventually become the existing Canadians. It's a difficult process, and painful for many.
In the 21st Century, there has been a lot of effort to allow new cultures to operate here. This is not easy, because the old rules aren't like Canadian rules. But we try to accomodate where possible.
Religious Tolerance.org wrote: The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Canada's Constitution, guarantees religious freedom to all citizens and residents. This includes both freedom of belief and practice. However, the Charter also contains a section that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, race and other factors. These two requirements often result in a conflict between religious freedom and human rights... Here's the link: Religious Tolerance.org
Our Charter is more powerful than culture and even the law.
As the Shafia murder trial went on, I read and watched every day. I was horrified by the parent's beliefs and saddened by their crime. I thought about what this "honour" thing must mean to them, and how it got that way. I asked why did their culture take on such a dire attitude? Even the idea of modesty, which applies very broadly to women but not men, seems odd.
In my mind, Shariah and Honour are both travesties of morals.
But what can I say to my many Muslim friends? Nothing. Canada is a land of immigrants, and we try to respect everybody's culture.
Now we know, there's a limit to how we treat each other, and the limit is clearly defined by our Constitution.
This case boldly proclaims to our New Canadians, and to the rest of the world, how our Constitution requires that our human rights and freedoms really matter, and are absolute rules of behaviour.
(Edit to add...)
After the verdict, Mr. Shafia was videotaped as he exited the Court, saying "Wrong, wrong..." and yet this is 2 1/2 years after the murder was committed.
(This post was edited by dan2see on Jan 29, 2012, 8:02 PM)
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guangzhou
Jan 29, 2012, 8:18 PM
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In reply to: Mohammad Shafia, his wife, Tooba Mohammad Yahya, and eldest son, Hamed, were found guilty of killing Mr. Shafia's three teenage daughters and Mr. Shafia's first wife in an elaborately staged, though ultimately bungled, car accident in June 2009. The defense argued the four died after a late-night joy ride went awry.
If the family actually believed this was acceptable because of their religious faith and that they did nothing wrong, why did they try to cover it up.
What's interesting to me is my personal experience living in a country to is mostly Muslim. Her in Indonesia, my fronds and climbing partners are about 90% Muslim. Non that I've spoken with on this case have second wives or support honor killings.
Actually, they are quite appalled that someone would use religious belief as a reason to kill. (Nothing new in my opinion, but a different story)
In reply to: Alia Hogben, executive director of the Canadian Council of Muslim Women, believes "the system" failed the three because they were treated as "exotic" minorities rather than "ordinary" Canadians.
A quote I can completely agree with.
(This post was edited by guangzhou on Jan 29, 2012, 8:19 PM)
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dan2see
Jan 29, 2012, 9:43 PM
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Honor killing is not a tenet of any religion. Instead it is culture.
Here it is in Wikipedia:
Wikipedia wrote: Honor Killing: Religion
According to Dr. Shahrzad Mojab, a University of Toronto professor of women’s studies, followers of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity have used their religions as a rationale to commit honour killings. However, Mojab stated that honor killings don't have "any definite connection with religion at all." She also pointed out that honor killings have been practised before any major religion came into existence. Widney Brown, the advocacy director of Human Rights Watch, said that the practice "goes across cultures and across religions." Human rights advocates have compared "honor killing" to "crimes of passion" in Latin America (which are sometimes treated extremely leniently) and also to the killing of women for lack of dowry in India. Tahira Shaid Khan, a professor of women’s issues at Aga Khan University, notes that there is nothing in the Qur'an that permits or sanctions honor killings. The first and most basic right in the Qur'an that every Muslim is expected to follow is, in fact, the right to life. As written in the Qur'an, That if anyone slays a human being – unless it be [in punishment] for murder or for spreading corruption on earth – it shall be as though he had slain all mankind; whereas, if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind. (5:32) . Khan instead blames it on attitudes (across different classes, ethnic and religious groups) that view women as property with no rights of their own as the motivation for honor killings. Khan also argues that this view results in violence against women and their being turned “into a commodity which can be exchanged, bought and sold.”
Shafia's brother was quoted as saying that, if the girls were his daughters, he would shit on them. He'd put them in a bag, and they'd never come out.
Shafia himself said several times, he hoped Allah would shit on their graves.
I think it's a form of abuse. The double-standard is a severe abuse on the women of their family.
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pinktricam
Jan 30, 2012, 12:17 AM
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curt wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: pinktricam wrote: Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother. You're a racist fuck. Considering Pinky's own unnatural compulsion to control the behavior of other people, I'm actually somewhat surprised he has a problem with this. Curt
Cute, but untrue.
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rrrADAM
Jan 30, 2012, 4:30 AM
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pinktricam wrote: Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother.
Yes... And your God has an even worse torturous eternity in store for those who simply don't believe in Him.
Next to Him, those extremists (and don't forget, Xians have their own murdurous and hateful extremists too... Like you) look rather bland.
And do I need to bother linking a bunch of articles where Xian whack jobs here in the US, just like you, killed their kids because "God told them to", or, because the Bible says to (paraphrasing) "Kill your kids if they don;t obey!"... Do I need to point you to those verses?
So, if you understand Islam, at all... They get their (Sharia) "Law" from the Old Testament, just like Jesus did, so they did as your own Bible (Old Testament) said to do. You just pick and choose what "laws" you want to follow, and what "laws" you want to inflict on others. You are a bigotted hipocrite, Eric.
People do sick sh|t in the name of their God, and are confident they are righteous... Just like you, Eric. Islam and Christianity both have good and bad, and each have their whack-job extremists that do horrendous sh|t. (I.e., Xians are no different than Muslims, other than the Addenda to the OT they follow)
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Jan 30, 2012, 5:44 AM)
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camhead
Jan 30, 2012, 7:46 AM
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pinktricam wrote: curt wrote: dr_feelgood wrote: pinktricam wrote: Canada Court Convicts Three for Honor Killings WSJ wrote: The prosecution argued it was honor rooted in Afghan tribal traditions that led Mr. Shafia to cleanse the shame he felt from the conduct of his rebellious daughters, Zainab, 19 years old, Sahar, 17, and Geeti, 13. The eldest two took unapproved boyfriends, and all three disobeyed their father through their independent behavior and sometimes-revealing dress. Rona Amir Mohammad, who was Mr. Shafia's first spouse in the polygamous family, was killed, the prosecution argued, because she was a troublesome first wife and lenient step mother. You're a racist fuck. Considering Pinky's own unnatural compulsion to control the behavior of other people, I'm actually somewhat surprised he has a problem with this. Curt Cute, but untrue.
All they're doing is adhering to Old Testament Law, Pinky. Why do you have a problem with that? Afghans are much better at obeying the Ten Commandments than Americans.
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dan2see
Jan 30, 2012, 12:02 PM
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These personal attacks are a great to hide your values behind your macho studly power, but you guys are fighting the wrong fight.
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pinktricam
Jan 30, 2012, 12:18 PM
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You're right. I should've done what I generally do when adam flaunts his willful ignorance. Ignore him.
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curt
Jan 30, 2012, 3:48 PM
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pinktricam wrote: You're right. I should've done what I generally do when adam flaunts his willful ignorance...
Excellent example of projection bias.
Curt
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guangzhou
Jan 30, 2012, 5:59 PM
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Anyone want some Kool-aid, I'm sharing mine during the next full-moon.
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pinktricam
Jan 30, 2012, 6:40 PM
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curt wrote: pinktricam wrote: You're right. I should've done what I generally do when adam flaunts his willful ignorance...Excellent example of projection bias. Curt
Depends on your perspective.
(This post was edited by pinktricam on Jan 30, 2012, 9:21 PM)
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rrrADAM
Jan 31, 2012, 3:54 AM
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No, I guess you are right... None of them are "just like you"... They have spouses and kids. You have neither a spouse, nor any offspring. I guess it is hard to find someone who can stomach you for any long period of time, even amongst other like minded whack jobs you must come into contact with.
Other than that, you are an religious extremist whack job, just like them.
Note - Don't think we didn't notice that you snipped the rest of my reply, where I cited all the instances of whack job Christians doing the very same things, in the name of the God you share with them. So, as I said, except for the fact that you are unable to find a wife or have kids, like them, you are just like them as far as being an extremist whack job, or, do you prefer religious nut-job (RNJ)?
(This post was edited by rrrADAM on Jan 31, 2012, 11:09 AM)
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curt
Jan 31, 2012, 9:42 AM
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pinktricam wrote: curt wrote: pinktricam wrote: You're right. I should've done what I generally do when adam flaunts his willful ignorance...Excellent example of projection bias. Curt Depends on your perspective.
No. Not really.
Curt
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pinktricam
Jan 31, 2012, 12:49 PM
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Whatever, douche...your silly misperceptions are of no consequence.
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