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HISTmaj


Feb 13, 2012, 9:16 AM
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Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...?
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Ive searched for this question and couldnt find an answer, so please forgive me if its blatantly in my face....

Right now, well for the last year, or close to it, Ive have a pair of Evolv's. My first pair, they are flat, easy, beginner shoes (So I was told, not my words) But I like them, they are comfortable and have overall been a good shoe.

When I attended a previous College, alot of the "Climb Staff" at our school wall (Students who climbed alot, thus worked there and set routes) had More radical shoes, a concave sole usually, when I inquired as to why, they said "once you get more experienced they have more versatility and can create an advantage." Now being the type of person I am, I dont usually take the first piece of information given to me as the "Word." So I figured Id ask you guys Wink

Main reason im asking, is because the life of my current shoes is getting short and when the time comes to get another pair I will already had a good hold on what I will need, or not need.

Thanks,

E.


lena_chita
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Feb 13, 2012, 9:44 AM
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Re: [HISTmaj] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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Downturned (that's the proper term for "concave") shoes concentrate more power into the toe, and thus work better for overhanging sport routes and bouldering. The downside of them is that in order to get all the advantages of such shoes, they need to fit precisely and tightly.

Depending on what kind of climbing you do, downturned shoes may not be of any use to you, even when you consider yourself more "advanced". They do not offer any advantage on slabby terrain and are too painful to wear for extended period of time when climbing cracks.

And just to be clear, "advantage" of downturned shoes is relatively minor in overall effect on what kind of climb you can or cannot do. It isn't like you are going to put on down-turned shoes and all of a sudden climb a grade harder.


marc801


Feb 13, 2012, 10:01 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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lena_chita wrote:
And just to be clear, "advantage" of downturned shoes is relatively minor in overall effect on what kind of climb you can or cannot do. It isn't like you are going to put on down-turned shoes and all of a sudden climb a grade harder.
Nor are you going to see much difference, if any, if you're climbing below 5.11, maybe 5.12, depending.


njrox


Feb 13, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Re: [HISTmaj] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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Like you, my first pair of climbing shoes were very basic and flat evolvs. My second climbing shoes were concaved, Mad Rock Concept 2.0.

They're great climbing shoes. But TERRIBLE belay shoes. You don't want to stand around in them. And I found them to be much better on rock than on artificial holds.


trenchdigger


Feb 13, 2012, 10:13 AM
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Re: [marc801] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
And just to be clear, "advantage" of downturned shoes is relatively minor in overall effect on what kind of climb you can or cannot do. It isn't like you are going to put on down-turned shoes and all of a sudden climb a grade harder.
Nor are you going to see much difference, if any, if you're climbing below 5.11, maybe 5.12, depending.

Downturned shoes aren't suited to a specific grade so much as a specific style of climbing - severely overhung routes. Rather than being more versatile, downturned shoes excel at letting you "pull" with your toes. That said, they'll be miserable for anything that requires smearing or jamming. I'd agree with everyones' comments - that you won't get anything out of aggressive downturned shoes other than sore feet.


marc801


Feb 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
marc801 wrote:
Nor are you going to see much difference, if any, if you're climbing below 5.11, maybe 5.12, depending.

Downturned shoes aren't suited to a specific grade so much as a specific style of climbing - severely overhung routes.
Agreed, but to overly generalize, that style tends to really manifest itself somewhere in the 5.11 - 5.12 and above range, hence my vague approximation of an estimate garnered from an educated guess via occasional observation.


lena_chita
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Feb 13, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Re: [trenchdigger] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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trenchdigger wrote:
marc801 wrote:
lena_chita wrote:
And just to be clear, "advantage" of downturned shoes is relatively minor in overall effect on what kind of climb you can or cannot do. It isn't like you are going to put on down-turned shoes and all of a sudden climb a grade harder.
Nor are you going to see much difference, if any, if you're climbing below 5.11, maybe 5.12, depending.

Downturned shoes aren't suited to a specific grade so much as a specific style of climbing - severely overhung routes. Rather than being more versatile, downturned shoes excel at letting you "pull" with your toes. That said, they'll be miserable for anything that requires smearing or jamming. I'd agree with everyones' comments - that you won't get anything out of aggressive downturned shoes other than sore feet.

I wouldn't go that far as the bolded statement above.

But it is pretty funny, when you occasionally see some dude swagger up to a gently-overhanging warmup, sort through 3 pairs of shoes, put on his gnar La Sportiva Solutions for "the overhanging route", and then proceed to grunt and flail bolt-to-bolt.


HISTmaj


Feb 13, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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Thanks for the correct Terminology along with the info I was looking for, sounds like they aren't in my future anytime soon. The Climbing gym I go to, most of the Lead routes are on a very overhung wall at first, then continue on a less severe, but still overhung wall. Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.


Rmsyll2


Feb 13, 2012, 7:32 PM
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Re: [HISTmaj] "correct Terminology" [In reply to]
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'trenchdigger' added "aggressive", another term common enough for me to have heard it too, sometimes in the context of bouldering, which, as mentioned, does often mean overhangs. People do say that they are at least as uncomfortable as they look, and don't work if they are not.

.


johnwesely


Feb 14, 2012, 4:41 AM
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FWIW, I do a fair amount of really steep sport and boulder in the steeps on occasion, and I have never felt the need to have tight or aggressive shoes. For a few years, I climbed in a pair of floppy Anasazis, and for the last year, I have climbed in a pair of snug but not tight Super Moccs. At first, it felt insecure, but my feet became stronger and adapted. The few times I would have preferred to have a tighter shoe was on harder granite routes, but I would not have wanted an aggressive shoe for those. If down turned shoes do have there place, it is outside of the realm of 5.12 at least.


Partner cracklover


Feb 14, 2012, 9:20 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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@johnwesely (and the OP)

I think it varies. I know people who absolutely *love* downturned aggressive shoes for anything steep (starting at maybe 5.11 and going up from there) and find they make a huge difference. And I also know climbers who climb steep 5.13- in La Sportiva Mythos.

For me, personally, the jury is still out. I just (a couple months ago) bought my first pair of downturned shoes that I can tolerate. I only climb to mid 5.12, but on everything I've tried, I still climb better on everything in my Anasazis. But as the new shoes break in, they are definitely catching up. We'll see.

GO


Myxomatosis


Feb 15, 2012, 5:52 AM
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Re: [cracklover] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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Yeah I will agree with what most people have said.


I think another factor and will clear up the "this shoe is for this grade" is that most over hanging routes are 5.11+ which downshoes are designed for.

So if you are climbing below that you will be mostly climbing slab's or cracks, so some nice edging shoes will be nice.

Also I think Rock type plays a part in what shoes I will take to an area. There is no point me taking downturn shoes to castle hill. I only take my dragons if I know there will be small feet on edges and slightly over hung routes.


curt


Feb 15, 2012, 4:29 PM
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HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt


johnwesely


Feb 15, 2012, 6:02 PM
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Re: [curt] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt

I saw some footage of Gill bouldering in a Bachar documentary, and I think you mean "campused with feet on" rather than bouldered.


shotwell


Feb 15, 2012, 6:34 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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johnwesely wrote:
curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt

I saw some footage of Gill bouldering in a Bachar documentary, and I think you mean "campused with feet on" rather than bouldered.

Curt is talking about himself, not John.

That being said, I've climbed equally as hard in 'flat bottomed' shoes and downturned shoes. I just wish I could climb as well as Curt in anything!


gosharks


Feb 15, 2012, 7:33 PM
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Re: [curt] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt
I did a ~60degree v10 crimp problem in Mad Rock Flashes the other week, and my feet didn't cut. This was in the gym, but the point is that shoes really don't [need to] matter.


johnwesely


Feb 15, 2012, 8:14 PM
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Re: [shotwell] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt

I saw some footage of Gill bouldering in a Bachar documentary, and I think you mean "campused with feet on" rather than bouldered.

Curt is talking about himself, not John.

That being said, I've climbed equally as hard in 'flat bottomed' shoes and downturned shoes. I just wish I could climb as well as Curt in anything!

I was talking about all hard bouldering in pre sticky rubber shoes.


shotwell


Feb 15, 2012, 8:22 PM
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johnwesely wrote:
shotwell wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt

I saw some footage of Gill bouldering in a Bachar documentary, and I think you mean "campused with feet on" rather than bouldered.

Curt is talking about himself, not John.

That being said, I've climbed equally as hard in 'flat bottomed' shoes and downturned shoes. I just wish I could climb as well as Curt in anything!

I was talking about all hard bouldering in pre sticky rubber shoes.

Congratulations? When you quote and reply to someone, I can only assume you're responding to what they said. When Curt was talking about climbing V10 in 'flat bottomed' shoes followed by Cool, he was making it very obvious that he is still the resident spray lord on rc.com. I also am pretty sure that Curt sent V10 post Boreal...I don't think he is quite that old. Saying that Curt meant to say 'campused with feet on' instead of bouldered because you were talking about something else would require a mind reader to understand your meaning.

Additionally, mad props to Gill, who presumably did 'campus with feet on' for the first V10. Major respect to the dude and his 'manly style.'


johnwesely


Feb 16, 2012, 4:48 AM
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Re: [shotwell] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
shotwell wrote:
johnwesely wrote:
curt wrote:
HISTmaj wrote:
...Although I'm sure Ive seen people climb them without Down turned shoes.

Sounds like flat shoes will fit my need.

E.

I even understand that some people have bouldered V10 with "flat bottomed" shoes. Cool

Curt

I saw some footage of Gill bouldering in a Bachar documentary, and I think you mean "campused with feet on" rather than bouldered.

Curt is talking about himself, not John.

That being said, I've climbed equally as hard in 'flat bottomed' shoes and downturned shoes. I just wish I could climb as well as Curt in anything!

I was talking about all hard bouldering in pre sticky rubber shoes.

Congratulations? When you quote and reply to someone, I can only assume you're responding to what they said. When Curt was talking about climbing V10 in 'flat bottomed' shoes followed by Cool, he was making it very obvious that he is still the resident spray lord on rc.com. I also am pretty sure that Curt sent V10 post Boreal...I don't think he is quite that old. Saying that Curt meant to say 'campused with feet on' instead of bouldered because you were talking about something else would require a mind reader to understand your meaning.

Additionally, mad props to Gill, who presumably did 'campus with feet on' for the first V10. Major respect to the dude and his 'manly style.'

It was really just a joke. I guess it was a bit on the vague side.


hyhuu


Feb 16, 2012, 6:03 AM
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Re: [johnwesely] Flat Bottomed Shoes/Concave Bottomed Shoes...? [In reply to]
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Looking back during my earlier years of climbing, I think that on steep/overhang routes, donwturn shoes compensate for weak core and imprecise body movement.


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