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donwanadi
Feb 22, 2012, 3:55 PM
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The literature and videos from Petzl do not give a complete description of the process of taking up slack.
In the old method. (Palm up) - You pull slack through the device with you brake hand while feeding with the guide hand. Move the guide hand up on the rope and your brake hand up to the guide hand. Pinch the slack with the guide hand and slide the brake hand toward the device. Rinse and repeat.
In the new method (palm down) - You pull slack through the device. Lock off your brake hand. That's all they give you.
What I have been doing is reaching below my brake hand hold the rope while I slide my brake hand up. This works fine if there is some tension holding the GRIGRI upright such as in a TR scenario.
When lead belaying, the GRIGRI flops over making it difficult to take more than 6-10 inches of rope through at a time. Has anyone worked this out?
I've read through
PE_D14-GRIGRI2_EN.pdf
D14-GRIGRI2.pdf
and watched the videos.
If I am missing it in one of the manuals, please specify a page.
(This post was edited by donwanadi on Feb 22, 2012, 4:07 PM)
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shotwell
Feb 22, 2012, 6:54 PM
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Registered: Jan 6, 2009
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donwanadi wrote: The literature and videos from Petzl do not give a complete description of the process of taking up slack. In the old method. (Palm up) - You pull slack through the device with you brake hand while feeding with the guide hand. Move the guide hand up on the rope and your brake hand up to the guide hand. Pinch the slack with the guide hand and slide the brake hand toward the device. Rinse and repeat. In the new method (palm down) - You pull slack through the device. Lock off your brake hand. That's all they give you. What I have been doing is reaching below my brake hand hold the rope while I slide my brake hand up. This works fine if there is some tension holding the GRIGRI upright such as in a TR scenario. When lead belaying, the GRIGRI flops over making it difficult to take more than 6-10 inches of rope through at a time. Has anyone worked this out? I've read through PE_D14-GRIGRI2_EN.pdf D14-GRIGRI2.pdf and watched the videos. If I am missing it in one of the manuals, please specify a page.
You just slide your hand.
http://www.dailymotion.com/...ing-the-leader_sport
4:00 mark to see it in action. This is the video for the original GriGri, but the method is the same.
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JimTitt
Feb 22, 2012, 7:06 PM
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Yup, just slide your hand. You can (and will) clamp on the rope faster than anyone can fall.
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jt512
Feb 22, 2012, 8:26 PM
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Registered: Apr 12, 2001
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donwanadi wrote: In the new method (palm down) - You pull slack through the device. Lock off your brake hand. That's all they give you. What I have been doing is reaching below my brake hand hold the rope while I slide my brake hand up. This works fine if there is some tension holding the GRIGRI upright such as in a TR scenario. When lead belaying, the GRIGRI flops over making it difficult to take more than 6-10 inches of rope through at a time. Has anyone worked this out?
At about 4:08 in this Petzl video, they show the belayer sliding his brake hand up the rope after taking in some slack. In their newer video, they show the belayer using a hand-over-hand method. I don't like either method, which is one reason I'm probably going to abandon the official Petzl recommendation in favor of some method (probably palm-up) of my own.
Jay
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JimTitt
Feb 22, 2012, 8:48 PM
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Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping!
Jim
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shotwell
Feb 22, 2012, 9:03 PM
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JimTitt wrote: Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping! Jim
Well, I can think of a variety of reasons to do so. The video shows it because it is an instructional video. Mentioning the context for taking in rope for a leader would probably prevent some broken feet and legs, however.
1) working routes
2) blown clip
3) 'discrete' rope tension 
4) lead fall low on the route (though you might need to hit the dirt too!)
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jt512
Feb 22, 2012, 9:17 PM
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shotwell wrote: JimTitt wrote: Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping! Jim Well, I can think of a variety of reasons to do so. The video shows it because it is an instructional video. Mentioning the context for taking in rope for a leader would probably prevent some broken feet and legs, however. 1) working routes 2) blown clip 3) 'discrete' rope tension 4) lead fall low on the route (though you might need to hit the dirt too!)
What about when the leader clips a bolt above his head, and then climbs up to the bolt? Don't you guys take in some slack as he climbs, or do you just leave the penalty slack in the rope?
Jay
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shotwell
Feb 22, 2012, 9:25 PM
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jt512 wrote: shotwell wrote: JimTitt wrote: Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping! Jim Well, I can think of a variety of reasons to do so. The video shows it because it is an instructional video. Mentioning the context for taking in rope for a leader would probably prevent some broken feet and legs, however. 1) working routes 2) blown clip 3) 'discrete' rope tension 4) lead fall low on the route (though you might need to hit the dirt too!) What about when the leader clips a bolt above his head, and then climbs up to the bolt? Don't you guys take in some slack as he climbs, or do you just leave the penalty slack in the rope? Jay
I belay just as if my climber was 'working' the route at all times, meaning that I keep the minimum amount of slack in the rope that still allows them to move. I know a lot of people don't bother to take up that slack, especially if they're working with a fast climber. My opinion is that you should, though I don't get pissed if people don't. The list I gave I consider to be mandatory (with the exception of 3, which was clearly a joke.)
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JimTitt
Feb 22, 2012, 10:46 PM
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jt512 wrote: shotwell wrote: JimTitt wrote: Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping! Jim Well, I can think of a variety of reasons to do so. The video shows it because it is an instructional video. Mentioning the context for taking in rope for a leader would probably prevent some broken feet and legs, however. 1) working routes 2) blown clip 3) 'discrete' rope tension 4) lead fall low on the route (though you might need to hit the dirt too!) What about when the leader clips a bolt above his head, and then climbs up to the bolt? Don't you guys take in some slack as he climbs, or do you just leave the penalty slack in the rope? Jay
Well, not too enthusiastically! The logic that as they clip over their head they are prepared to take a 6 or so meter fall but not the half meter one when they have clipped is a bit wierd. Anyway pulling all that rope to and fro wears me out and disturbs my contemplative smoking, they never notice anyway until they want to rest and I donīt encourage that either.
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jt512
Feb 22, 2012, 11:07 PM
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JimTitt wrote: jt512 wrote: shotwell wrote: JimTitt wrote: Why is the guy in the video taking in clipping-slack with a leader anyway, itīs not top-roping! Jim Well, I can think of a variety of reasons to do so. The video shows it because it is an instructional video. Mentioning the context for taking in rope for a leader would probably prevent some broken feet and legs, however. 1) working routes 2) blown clip 3) 'discrete' rope tension 4) lead fall low on the route (though you might need to hit the dirt too!) What about when the leader clips a bolt above his head, and then climbs up to the bolt? Don't you guys take in some slack as he climbs, or do you just leave the penalty slack in the rope? Jay Well, not too enthusiastically! The logic that as they clip over their head they are prepared to take a 6 or so meter fall but not the half meter one when they have clipped is a bit wierd. Anyway pulling all that rope to and fro wears me out and disturbs my contemplative smoking, they never notice anyway until they want to rest and I donīt encourage that either.
Well, Jim, my girlfriend is currently visiting Germany. I'm sure she'd be happy to give a few belay lessonsteach you some proper American belaying.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on Feb 22, 2012, 11:08 PM)
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