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static vs dynamic training for tendons
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amarius


Feb 24, 2012, 3:05 PM
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static vs dynamic training for tendons
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Sorry for multiple edit :(

Found an interesting study that I thought might be of interest to some.
Study compared effects of static training ( hold the weight) with dynamic training ( move the weight) on blood supply and stiffness of patella tendon ( knee).
It showed that ST was more effective than DT in increasing the stiffness of tendon, while the blood volume of the patella tendon was greater under DT

Even though climbers don't use their knees that much it would be reasonable to assume that something similar would hold for hand tendons.

Here is the ST protocol:
70% of Maximal Voluntary Contraction (MVC) 10 times 15 seconds each, 30 seconds rest in between.
For 12 week study, MVC was reevaluated each 4 weeks.

DT
80% of Max, 5 sets of 10 reps ( 1s up 3s down ), rest 1 min inbetween.

Here is the study


(This post was edited by amarius on Feb 24, 2012, 3:25 PM)


aerili


Feb 26, 2012, 7:16 PM
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Re: [amarius] static vs dynamic training for tendons [In reply to]
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Thanks for the interesting topic.

However, I do not feel one can 'just assume' similar things hold true for tendons in the hand. Tendons vary greatly throughout the body, both in stiffness, compliance, and ability to withstand compression, tension, and shear stresses, as well in ability to remodel and strengthen.

If anyone cared about us climbers, though, it would be really interesting to do a study on that! As it stands, most of our sport-specific training needs are all statically-based when it comes to our hands.


amarius


Feb 27, 2012, 7:06 AM
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aerili wrote:

If anyone cared about us climbers, though, it would be really interesting to do a study on that! As it stands, most of our sport-specific training needs are all statically-based when it comes to our hands.

One of primary reasons why I posted this - there is non-zero probability that some climbers might be into physio research, this would make for an excellent research topic.

I also realize that static loading situations are more often encountered in climbing than dynamic. Here is my train of thought - Static/Dynamic load stresses tendons. Stressed tendons may develop micro tears which need to heal before becoming macro tears and major problems. Healing process is typically facilitated by blood flow, any training that helps increase blood flow to tendons may be seen as beneficial.


ceebo


Feb 27, 2012, 5:30 PM
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Re: [amarius] static vs dynamic training for tendons [In reply to]
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amarius wrote:
aerili wrote:

If anyone cared about us climbers, though, it would be really interesting to do a study on that! As it stands, most of our sport-specific training needs are all statically-based when it comes to our hands.

One of primary reasons why I posted this - there is non-zero probability that some climbers might be into physio research, this would make for an excellent research topic.

I also realize that static loading situations are more often encountered in climbing than dynamic. Here is my train of thought - Static/Dynamic load stresses tendons. Stressed tendons may develop micro tears which need to heal before becoming macro tears and major problems. Healing process is typically facilitated by blood flow, any training that helps increase blood flow to tendons may be seen as beneficial.

So this means that the likes of finger curls (or is it finger rolls) will help finger recovery long term?.


aerili


Feb 27, 2012, 8:02 PM
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amarius wrote:
I also realize that static loading situations are more often encountered in climbing than dynamic.
I said specifically that our hands encounter primarily static loading during climbing. I do not think this is the case for most of the rest of our muscles during climbing. If this were true, we wouldn't be climbing, we'd be "holding".


In reply to:
Here is my train of thought - Static/Dynamic load stresses tendons. Stressed tendons may develop micro tears which need to heal before becoming macro tears and major problems. Healing process is typically facilitated by blood flow, any training that helps increase blood flow to tendons may be seen as beneficial.
Well, static and dynamic loading not only stress tendons, they also increase blood flow to tendons (vs doing nothing).

With the little background I have in sports medicine, I will go out on a limb here and say I think that if you are over-stressing your tendons, REST is going to be much more beneficial to your recovery than loading your hands dynamically.

The only way to load your finger tendons in a dynamic fashion is to squeeze something-- like a ball, grip strengthener, etc.

Keep in mind this study actually states: "To our knowledge, this is the first study to demonstrate the changes in the mechanical properties and blood volume of human tendon after resistance training in vivo." In other words, one study showing this effect doesn't mean too much. Yet.

Unfortunately, finger flexor tendon injuries comprise such a tiny percentage of injury morbidity in the U.S. (and world I suppose) that the need to study it is not that urgent.


aerili


Feb 27, 2012, 8:04 PM
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ceebo wrote:
So this means that the likes of finger curls (or is it finger rolls) will help finger recovery long term?.

Nobody knows. There are, however, much more proven techniques of rehabilitation and recovery.


jt512


Feb 27, 2012, 9:34 PM
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aerili wrote:
Keep in mind this study actually states: "To our knowledge, this is the first study to demonstrate the changes in the mechanical properties and blood volume of human tendon after resistance training in vivo." In other words, one study showing this effect doesn't mean too much. Yet.

When authors of scientific papers make that kind of statement, as they often do, they do not intend it to be a reason to take their research with a grain of salt. They mean almost the exact opposite: that their paper is particularly important because it contributes new knowledge.

Jay


amarius


Feb 28, 2012, 5:53 AM
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aerili wrote:
Keep in mind this study actually states: "To our knowledge, this is the first study to demonstrate the changes in the mechanical properties and blood volume of human tendon after resistance training in vivo." In other words, one study showing this effect doesn't mean too much. Yet.

Right on. This is the first study that had methodology to measure blood flow, it would be surprising if someone was able to do that before, since there are pretty much no other technique except for IR absorption.


As to the rest being beneficial - yes. Proven protocol for lower grade Achilles tendinosis rehab is rest, stretching and eccentric exercises. Eccentric exercise protocol is - contract, release slowly, not unlike the DT protocol mentioned in the study. I believe the jury is still out for the length of that rest period.
When I was rehabbing dislocated shoulder - ortho encouraged not to use sling at all. Compare this to the previous "state of the art" - sling for weeks. As a matter of fact, I was able to kayak 2-3 weeks after dislocation.

I agree with your statement that hand tendon injuries are very niche. I hope there are some climbers on board who might be interested in doing the research.


Disclosure - I am not MD, just a researcher.


aerili


Feb 28, 2012, 9:58 AM
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jt512 wrote:
When authors of scientific papers make that kind of statement, as they often do, they do not intend it to be a reason to take their research with a grain of salt. They mean almost the exact opposite: that their paper is particularly important because it contributes new knowledge.

Jay
I get that. But I think a single study with no replication is still not typically grounds to start making big assumptions (rather, more research). I remember when I was in school literally having professors look me in the eye and tell me, "That is only one study."


amarius wrote:
As to the rest being beneficial - yes. Proven protocol for lower grade Achilles tendinosis rehab is rest, stretching and eccentric exercises. Eccentric exercise protocol is - contract, release slowly, not unlike the DT protocol mentioned in the study. I believe the jury is still out for the length of that rest period.
When I was rehabbing dislocated shoulder - ortho encouraged not to use sling at all. Compare this to the previous "state of the art" - sling for weeks. As a matter of fact, I was able to kayak 2-3 weeks after dislocation.
Yeah, actually I was going to say that most rehab protocols introduce plenty of dynamic loading on tendon injuries (and not just eccentric) once you're at a certain point. In my experience, more movement earlier seems to be the typical treatment approach now for some time.


jt512


Feb 28, 2012, 10:48 AM
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amarius wrote:
I am not MD . . .

That was obvious when you said "non-zero probabiity"

Jay


amarius


Feb 28, 2012, 11:20 AM
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ROFL!

I love research - not only it encourages to re-examine what is known, but allows for different views :)

For example - everybody knows High Load Low Volume reps build muscle better? - Apparently Low Load High Volume, High Volume here is defined as exercising to failure, protocol activates muscle protein synthesis the best. Who knew!
Low-load high volume resistance exercise


One could claim, again, that this is just one study

Details -
High Load Low Volume - 90% of Max, repeat to failure
Low Load High Volume - 30% of Max, repeat to failure


What I found interesting is that one suggested training for improving hand strength/grip is to hang "till failure", this study sort of supports this idea with the implied caveat that hanging longer is better than hanging shorter.


aerili


Feb 28, 2012, 4:46 PM
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amarius wrote:
For example - everybody knows High Load Low Volume reps build muscle better? - Apparently Low Load High Volume, High Volume here is defined as exercising to failure, protocol activates muscle protein synthesis the best. Who knew!
I think this has been known for a long time if you work or run in those circles (as I have). Some of my NSCA training books and ex phys books are over 10 years old and they clearly show that high load/low volume is geared toward training strength, not size.

Bodybuilders use moderate loads and high volume to attain the size they require.


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