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hoonigan99
Feb 28, 2012, 9:11 AM
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looking at getting a Singing Rock Flex II harness and wanting to get started rappelling i am a medical first responder and police officer i have rappelled one time and have a FIGURE 8 and some carbiners.
I know what harness i want just IF THERE IS NO SAFETY OBJECTIONS HERE on the rock flex II I'm not clear on rope for rappelling also is there any dvd instruction videos that cover knot tying and a good way to secure ropes to trees
my rappelling will be for search and rescue and rescue for vehicles that have been ditched down ravines
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jcrew
Feb 28, 2012, 9:17 AM
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static doesn't stretch, dynamic does. dynamic is for rock climbing, static for hauling, jugging, sport-rapping, etc...
static should be best for your intended uses. just don't take a real fall on it or you will break your gear and body.
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hoonigan99
Feb 28, 2012, 9:22 AM
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what diameter and brand/bang for the buck should i look for in static
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sandstone
Feb 28, 2012, 9:55 AM
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Both types of rope stretch, "static" rope stretches less.
You need training -- good training. This is not the place to learn what you need to know. Talk to the SAR groups who do high angle work in your area, they should be able to steer you to some good instruction.
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hoonigan99
Feb 28, 2012, 10:08 AM
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Unfortunately I live in a small town there is no one here to give instruction the closest place would be 200 miles away at St. Louis which will also be where I buy my gear or online. I went repelling once and know the basics but it was all somebody else's gear and when it comes to ropes and what to buy I'm clueless
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herites
Feb 28, 2012, 10:27 AM
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hoonigan99 wrote: looking at getting a Singing Rock Flex II harness and wanting to get started rappelling i am a medical first responder and police officer i have rappelled one time and have a FIGURE 8 and some carbiners. I know what harness i want just IF THERE IS NO SAFETY OBJECTIONS HERE on the rock flex II I'm not clear on rope for rappelling also is there any dvd instruction videos that cover knot tying and a good way to secure ropes to trees my rappelling will be for search and rescue and rescue for vehicles that have been ditched down ravines
Looking at the bolded part, shouldn't you learn the necessary skills and know-how during SAR courses, formal training or whatever? Figuring out how to rappel with the help of the internet is enough if you want to rap for your own amusement, but when it involves others, especially others who may need help from qualified personnel you should get some proper training.
Long story short: it's fine to risk your own life, but it's not to risk other's.
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bill413
Feb 28, 2012, 11:00 AM
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hoonigan99 wrote: And what's your attitude toward the folk that deliberately do something that has them requiring your services? I don't know how far their geographical draw goes, but you might check out St. Louis Area Climbing or try this, or see if any of these are near you.
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hoonigan99
Feb 28, 2012, 11:23 AM
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awesome thanks for the info on st louis
and as far as the SAR training goes we have a effective K9 unit, ropery training around here does not exist thats why im asking here for some help in the right direction
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hoonigan99
Feb 28, 2012, 11:37 AM
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bill413 wrote: hoonigan99 wrote: And what's your attitude toward the folk that deliberately do something that has them requiring your services? I don't know how far their geographical draw goes, but you might check out St. Louis Area Climbing or try this, or see if any of these are near you. the google search links were cute and to be more specific about people getting them self in the situation to require my services? i volunteer for medical assist every year for this event its a blast http://www.youtube.com/...FCSf4nsQSkQ-zu5f81Qr
(This post was edited by hoonigan99 on Feb 28, 2012, 11:39 AM)
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FriscoWilderness
Feb 28, 2012, 8:53 PM
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Sometimes we have to sacrafice alot to do the things we are passionate about. Which being a police officer you know this already.
As others have said get the proper instruction or you may find yourself adding to those needing rescue.
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overlord
Mar 1, 2012, 2:04 AM
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if youre just gonna do the rappeling, a static line will work for your. it might even be better than a dynamic one because they tend to be more durable. and they are better for setting up pulleys and lifting systems (if you have to lift a victim out of a ravine, for example).
on the other hand, if you have to ask this question, you clearly are not trained to do such things. please, do seek proper training. proper gear can make your task easier, improper training will get you killed.
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gimmeslack
Mar 1, 2012, 4:48 AM
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Ditto on the suggestion that you get a burly static line for rigging raps and hauls.
Although a climber will use similar techniques and gear, rescue and technical rigging often do things differently for reasons including life-safety issues. If you are serious, I think it's irresponsible to think you'll be able to teach yourself adequately to work as a professional. It would be like suggesting that by reading a wilderness medicine text I can work as an EMT.
Having said that, I would suggest that you get a (recent edition!) copy of On Rope and familiarize yourself with it cover-to-cover. Then I'd recommend that you find the resources to attend a class somewhere. Maybe you can get a grant or something?
Good luck!
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acorneau
Mar 1, 2012, 11:56 AM
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I'm not a rescue technician but I bought this book out of curiosity and it's a pretty good resource...
http://www.amazon.com/...330631589&sr=8-2
Of course a book is no replacement for actual training from an actual professional.
(This post was edited by acorneau on Mar 1, 2012, 12:00 PM)
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Rmsyll2
Mar 1, 2012, 8:03 PM
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Training sessions in NC are regularly done where I can see some of it, and certification takes four weekends including classes and practice. If all you want is to rappel, without when to set bones and the Stokes basket hoist from a tripod and crossing a gully on a zip line, that is taught to Boy Scouts in one try. But the boys are on a safety belay on top and below too, just in case.
If there is a hillside you could start on, the rigging and backing down and letting the rope slide or be stopped can be practiced safely. You would need a wrap for the tree, please, a static rope as at http://www.sterlingrope.com/products/458880, your harness and carabiners and Fig-8 device, and gloves to protect your skin from burning but not too sloppy to allow control. Instructions are very helpful, and may have come with your rappel device.
Note that for rappel, the anchor should not be at the rim, you should be able to back to the rim on rappel and check everything before trusting to your gear and ability. What you are rappelling on or simply past makes some difference in what you do. Keeping your legs up like sitting in a chair to control yourself by your feet is part of standard training. The image promoted by the military of zinging down a rope hanging in space is not a necessary part of it.
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vinnie83
Mar 1, 2012, 10:53 PM
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I've been doing full time SAR for 6 years now. If you want to develop a low/high angle rescue capability in your department then you should probably be thinking about having your department pay for an experienced instructor to come out and do a course. There is a lot more than just rappelling that you should be thinking about. PM me if you want more detailed info and recommendations.
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bill413
Mar 2, 2012, 6:06 AM
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By the way...after you rappel down to perform whatever reconnaissance or rescue that is required, how are you planning to get back up?
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looseanchor
Mar 25, 2012, 11:25 PM
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You can't do what you want to do without professional, in person instruction. Your state or agency also may have certification requirements.
However, I found the book, On Rope, by Bruce Smith and Allen Padgett to be very informative, although it's not a rescue-specific text. Read as many professional books on rescue rope work as possible. What you read on the Internet often is wrong and unsafe.
I rappel, and I used Sterling Rope company's Static HTP line, which is very low elongation. Read the specs to determine the Safe Working Load (SWL) that's right for your application.
http://www.sterlingrope.com/products/458878
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dbthamsai
May 7, 2012, 7:52 PM
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Dynamic rope stretches when it is loaded while the static rope does not strech.
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acorneau
May 12, 2012, 2:34 PM
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dbthamsai wrote: Dynamic rope stretches when it is loaded while the static rope does not strech.
EVERYTHING stretches, it's just a matter of how much.
Dynamic rope typically has 7-10% stretch under a static load.
Static rope typically has 2-5% stretch (again, static load).
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TarHeelEMT
May 14, 2012, 10:11 AM
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hoonigan99 wrote: awesome thanks for the info on st louis and as far as the SAR training goes we have a effective K9 unit, ropery training around here does not exist thats why im asking here for some help in the right direction
OK, this is as nice as I can manage and comes from someone who does rope rescue professionally.
First of all, bullshit. I guarantee there are courses available through fire departments and community colleges for rope rescue. Your firefighters are getting their training somewhere. Figure out where.
Secondly, you're an idiot if you think that dicking around with a rappel setup qualifies you in any way to conduct rope rescue. You're just going to get yourself and others hurt. Don't get others hurt.
Don't take my word for it, though. You're better off asking about rappelling for rescue work at the firehouse.com forums, anyway.
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/f286/
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/f294/
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scott.nearing
May 14, 2012, 12:00 PM
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I believe that a local Reserve or National Guard unit may have someone who will help you in this effort. I served in the Army; active, reserve, and NG. I was also a recruiter and a recruiter should know about the local units. Rivalry aside, other branches also may have the knowledge you are looking for.
I did not read all the posts in this thread but stopped when I saw your question was answered.
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