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knubs
Mar 4, 2012, 9:38 AM
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hello everyone! i remember finding a .gif image somewhere a while ago that showed the basic belay technique. i've been searching for it again and have had no luck. is there anyone who might be able to point me in the right direction? i want to keep the gif on my phone to show new people that i take climbing. i am a bad teacher and i have one hand so it takes forever when im trying to teach someone how to belay.
Thanks!
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shoo
Mar 4, 2012, 2:14 PM
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[sarcasm]You should just give them a grigri[/sarcasm]
Seriously, though. If you know that you are unable to effectively teach, regardless of the underlying reasons for this, you probably should let someone else do the teaching.
If you absolutely MUST, however, there are a billion videos on youtube. A quick search for "BUS belay technique" yielded this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-a0FLqwPL8
Note: I hate myself for having to make my sarcasm so obvious.
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knubs
Mar 4, 2012, 8:56 PM
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i wish i could afford a grigri.... im still working on very slowly building my rack though.
i can teach people fine it just takes a long time because i cant demonstrate and people usually cant follow basic directions without a visual aid for some reason.
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dostol
Mar 5, 2012, 5:20 AM
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Good video... I didn't know the "BUS" term. I see a lot of people hold the rope above the ATC with their fingers when taking. I taught myself the BUS simply because I just understood letting go of a solid brake hand position is not an option, ever.
I still use a grigri primarily, though; especially when someone is belaying me. I feel safer. I think saying "grigri promotes bad technique" is like saying "air bags promote bad driving." I'll take the air bags. 
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surfstar
Mar 5, 2012, 6:23 AM
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I feel safer giving someone the Mammut Smart to belay with vs a GriGri - much harder to override it and release the climber for a ride. Lighter and cheaper too. Uses same technique as an ATC.
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Rmsyll2
Mar 6, 2012, 1:10 AM
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One image, unless a composite, will not show belay technique. It is a more complex situation than one image can show.
The one image that I would show is of what not to do: hold both ropes up in front of your face, to slide one hand down on its rope. That position is offering no brake, and the speed with which a fall will pull the rope through a hand is greater than normal response time. Believing that you will have time to at least pull the brake strand down, if not to stop it sliding by squeezing either strand, ignores that by that time the rope will be literally burning your skin, with a reflex to release the offending rope. Yes, there are some saves, but there are some dropped climbers too, and any is too many.
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bill413
Mar 6, 2012, 2:04 PM
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Rmsyll2 wrote: One image, unless a composite, will not show belay technique. It is a more complex situation than one image can show. The one image that I would show is of what not to do: hold both ropes up in front of your face, to slide one hand down on its rope. That position is offering no brake, and the speed with which a fall will pull the rope through a hand is greater than normal response time. Believing that you will have time to at least pull the brake strand down, if not to stop it sliding by squeezing either strand, ignores that by that time the rope will be literally burning your skin, with a reflex to release the offending rope. Yes, there are some saves, but there are some dropped climbers too, and any is too many. .
And why would you reinforce an image you feel is bad? Especially without showing correct technique?
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6pacfershur
Mar 6, 2012, 6:31 PM
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i watched the video several times; the technique would work but it seems inefficient to move the "guide hand" (what i learned to call it) back and forth....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change....
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shotwell
Mar 6, 2012, 6:55 PM
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6pacfershur wrote: i watched the video several times; the technique would work but it seems inefficient to move the "guide hand" (what i learned to call it) back and forth.... there used to be ONE way to belay, things change....
...really? I guess we should all go back to the hip belay then. Heaven forbid we live and learn.
B.U.S. is perfectly fine, even if it isn't my preferred method.
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edge
Mar 6, 2012, 7:56 PM
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cracklover wrote: 6pacfershur wrote: i watched the video several times; the technique would work but it seems inefficient to move the "guide hand" (what i learned to call it) back and forth....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change.... What an inefficient technique that is. The old pinch and slide works great if you just do it properly. GO
Exactly my thoughts as well. The belayer in that video seems to be getting in quite an ab workout crunching down for the "under" grab. try that when you are sitting on a small stance tied in tight to the anchors.
And the guy behind her grabbing what, her gear loops? Does she always need a posse of grabbers with her?
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jt512
Mar 6, 2012, 8:27 PM
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edge wrote: cracklover wrote: 6pacfershur wrote: i watched the video several times; the technique would work but it seems inefficient to move the "guide hand" (what i learned to call it) back and forth....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change.... What an inefficient technique that is. The old pinch and slide works great if you just do it properly. GO Exactly my thoughts as well. The belayer in that video seems to be getting in quite an ab workout crunching down for the "under" grab. try that when you are sitting on a small stance tied in tight to the anchors.
That belayer is burning more calories than the climber.
Jay
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chadnsc
Mar 6, 2012, 9:06 PM
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jt512 wrote: That belayer is burning more calories than the climber. Jay
So you're saying that I should use that technique? 
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donwanadi
Mar 6, 2012, 9:18 PM
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I tend to prefer BUS for lead belay and pinch and slide for TR.
BUS only works well for TR if there is tension holding the belay device up which means basically dragging your climber up the wall.
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cracklover
Mar 6, 2012, 9:54 PM
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donwanadi wrote: I tend to prefer BUS for lead belay and pinch and slide for TR. BUS only works well for TR if there is tension holding the belay device up which means basically dragging your climber up the wall.
Wait, so you're saying you do have tension when you belay a leader? Remind me to never get a belay from you! LOL
IMO that technique is one of those "solutions in search of a problem".
GO
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donwanadi
Mar 6, 2012, 10:01 PM
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No, but when belaying for a leader, it is pretty rare to have to take in more than an armful of slack. I take it in, and then I am ready to give it right back.
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shotwell
Mar 6, 2012, 10:16 PM
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cracklover wrote: 6pacfershur wrote: i watched the video several times; the technique would work but it seems inefficient to move the "guide hand" (what i learned to call it) back and forth....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change.... What an inefficient technique that is. The old pinch and slide works great if you just do it properly. GO
Judging a belay technique off a single video is not necessarily reasonable.
Personally, I use the pinch and slide anytime I'm catching with an ATC. I belay with a simple slide of the brake hand with a GriGri, but will add the 'under' portion at the request of my climber. I can do it efficiently, though it did take some time to figure it out.
Doing it properly means you don't actually have to 'squat' down to get the other hand below your brake. You just have to be bright enough to not lock off all the way unless you're catching a fall.
The downside of the technique is that you'll have more trouble belaying a fast climber. If I'm working with someone that absolutely refuses to let me do a simple slide with the GriGri and climbs fast I just switch to an ATC.
(This post was edited by shotwell on Mar 6, 2012, 11:14 PM)
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shoo
Mar 6, 2012, 11:12 PM
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shotwell wrote: Doing it properly means you don't actually have to 'squat' down to get the other hand below your break. You just have to be bright enough to not lock off all the way unless you're catching a fall. The downside of the technique is that you'll have more trouble belaying a fast climber. If I'm working with someone that absolutely refuses to let me do a simple slide with the GriGri and climbs fast I just switch to an ATC.
Correct all around. This is a video of someone belaying only moderately well, and making it way harder than necessary.
BUS is easy to teach, easy to do, keeps you in a brake position for the majority of the time, and is LESS work when you do it right, since your "at rest" position is more comfortable. These are all convenient things for the beginner and the pro alike. However, it is slightly slower the the slap and slide method. Not usually a big deal if your partner is climbing at normal speeds.
(This post was edited by shoo on Mar 6, 2012, 11:12 PM)
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knubs
Mar 7, 2012, 9:19 AM
Post #19 of 25
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a gif is a moving image; pretty much like a mini video.
and still no .gif found, but at least there is a good discussion. i always teach the pinch and slide. i, however, use a crazy custom method involving an atc xp and an ascender on my nub to pull in slack.
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sbaclimber
Mar 7, 2012, 10:29 AM
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knubs wrote: a n animated gif is a moving image; pretty much like a mini video.
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ubu
Mar 7, 2012, 11:13 AM
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Rmsyll2 wrote: One image, unless a composite, will not show belay technique. It is a more complex situation than one image can show. The one image that I would show is of what not to do: hold both ropes up in front of your face, to slide one hand down on its rope. That position is offering no brake, and the speed with which a fall will pull the rope through a hand is greater than normal response time. Believing that you will have time to at least pull the brake strand down, if not to stop it sliding by squeezing either strand, ignores that by that time the rope will be literally burning your skin, with a reflex to release the offending rope. Yes, there are some saves, but there are some dropped climbers too, and any is too many. .
Like this?
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6pacfershur
Mar 7, 2012, 5:41 PM
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6pacfershur wrote: ....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change....
BUS is just one example of several different belay techniques that have popped up over the past 40 years; where do they come from? ....and by the way, anybody who has caught a respectable leader fall using a hip belay would probably consider it stupid to go back....
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shotwell
Mar 7, 2012, 5:52 PM
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6pacfershur wrote: 6pacfershur wrote: ....there used to be ONE way to belay, things change.... BUS is just one example of several different belay techniques that have popped up over the past 40 years; where do they come from? ....and by the way, anybody who has caught a respectable leader fall using a hip belay would probably consider it stupid to go back....
I think what you have failed to realize through the years is that there used to be one way you knew how to belay. Why you have a problem with a method other than that you use is beyond me.
Do you really think there was only one belay technique forty years ago? One belay device even? Ever heard of the Munter hitch?
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6pacfershur
Mar 7, 2012, 11:51 PM
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not only the muenter hitch, but also: shoulder belay, boot-ax belay, standing ice ax/caribiner belay, multiple methods to self-belay, stitch belay plates, figure 8's ....... im not against anybody and their partners using whatever belay method they choose.....
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shotwell
Mar 8, 2012, 12:01 AM
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6pacfershur wrote: not only the muenter hitch, but also: shoulder belay, boot-ax belay, standing ice ax/caribiner belay, multiple methods to self-belay, stitch belay plates, figure 8's ....... im not against anybody and their partners using whatever belay method they choose.....
Must have misinterpreted you. Seemed like you were lamenting the creation of additional belay methods.
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