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kjbenson


Mar 16, 2012, 11:04 AM
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Gaining Strength
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I just started climbing about a week ago and I just fell in love. I've been to my local bouldering spot and just got a membership at the closest rock gym. I've been strictly bouldering recently and it as been testing my strength. I've always been in good shape through sports and what not, but climbing is a completely new endeavor.

I've been reading everywhere and it's telling me that I should only seriously be climbing 3-4 days a week to start so my muscles have time to recover; however, I am desperate to climb every day.

Would it be possible for me to just boulder and seriously test/biuld my strenght those 3-4 days and do some fun TR routes on the side days without becoming terribly run down in a month or so?

And what other things can I do to start building strength?


(This post was edited by kjbenson on Mar 16, 2012, 11:11 AM)


lena_chita
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Mar 16, 2012, 11:33 AM
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Re: [kjbenson] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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You will progress rapidly if you can climb/boulder 3-4 days a week. Resist the urge to go every single day. Your muscles need the recovery time and getting injured sucks.

With one week of experience under your belt, do not worry about doing anything "special" to build up strength. Instead, focus on developing good technique.


wmshub


Mar 16, 2012, 11:33 AM
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Re: [kjbenson] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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I'm not a climbing expert (or any kind of exercise export for that matter), but in general if you want to get stronger your muscles do need at least a full day of rest. Weightlifters will often alternate workouts, for example do arms and legs one day, shoulders/back/chest another, so that each muscle set is only stressed every other day.

As you get older the time it takes for muscles to recover from a tough workout gets longer. I'm in my 40's now and find that heavy workouts more than twice a week is counterproductive.


(This post was edited by wmshub on Mar 16, 2012, 11:34 AM)


kjbenson


Mar 16, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Re: [lena_chita] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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Thanks Lena, and yes I guess I should just accept the fact that it is better if I don't do it every day.

Are there any workouts other than the standard I could do on offdays? (The standard being, cardio/abs)


ceebo


Mar 16, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Re: [kjbenson] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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kjbenson wrote:
I just started climbing about a week ago and I just fell in love. I've been to my local bouldering spot and just got a membership at the closest rock gym. I've been strictly bouldering recently and it as been testing my strength. I've always been in good shape through sports and what not, but climbing is a completely new endeavor.

I've been reading everywhere and it's telling me that I should only seriously be climbing 3-4 days a week to start so my muscles have time to recover; however, I am desperate to climb every day.

Would it be possible for me to just boulder and seriously test/biuld my strenght those 3-4 days and do some fun TR routes on the side days without becoming terribly run down in a month or so?

And what other things can I do to start building strength?

Maybe soon you can climb every day but you need to limit the duration and difficulty level very wisely.

This is not a recomendation but an example of the kinde thing you would be looking at.

Day one: easy climbing for around an hour (Easy for you probably being vert/slab walls with any hold). Try not to get any kind of pump, main focus on technique movement.

Day two: Same as above

Day 3: Low grade climbing, v1 or w/e is a regular climbing level for you. No more than 2 hours with good rests. Some over hangs if you want.

Day 4: same as day 1

Day 5: medium climbing.. say v2, for an hour.

Day 6: like day 1

Day 7: Higher end climbing near max.. v3. Limited to an hour.

This will cost you more money.. probably be less effectave as 3 solid 2 hour work outs with rest days. Also, since you are very new.. ''easy'' climbing that climbers like me can do all day proabbly does not apply to you. Take an extra few month before you try anything like the above or even regular 4 day climbing for safer measure.

Also, good tip. Just becuase you can maintain a hard climbing session a few tmes, it does not mean you can maintain it ever day week in week out. Many injurys will build up over time where resting days was not enuf OR the difficulty was to high rendering those rest days isuficient.


donwanadi


Mar 17, 2012, 9:37 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Re: [donwanadi] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 17, 2012, 10:18 AM)


donwanadi


Mar 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

My point is that the difference between v3 and v0 routes for a someone that has been climbing for a week is gigantic. Most people couldn't get off the ground on a V3 in their first month, certainly not their first week.

I'm not suggesting your advice is bad, just that you guys who are more experienced sometimes forget that v0s aren't a warmup for someone in their first weeks of climbing. More than likely he'll have to project v0s and v1s.


(This post was edited by donwanadi on Mar 17, 2012, 10:28 AM)


shotwell


Mar 17, 2012, 10:55 AM
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Re: [ceebo] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Re: [shotwell] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.

Read the OP agin, then read your post again.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 17, 2012, 11:50 AM)


shotwell


Mar 17, 2012, 12:00 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.

Read the OP agin, then read your post again.

Whatever. You're not seeing the obvious problem with your 'daily climbing program.' Nothing new, you don't understand what you're talking about.

To the OP, you just need to climb more. Seriously. Strength will come eventually. Don't even consider starting to train your strength until you're not making gains from movement training. If you're like me, this will be a long way down the road.

For the record, I don't campus, don't train on a hang board, can't do a one-arm pull-up, and don't consider myself strong. I 'train' by climbing 3-4 times a week. I still see big gains, so I'm not changing a thing.


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 1:41 PM
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Re: [shotwell] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.

Read the OP agin, then read your post again.

Whatever. You're not seeing the obvious problem with your 'daily climbing program.' Nothing new, you don't understand what you're talking about.
.

I did not disagree with what you said.. you just failed hard to realise the exact same logic was covered in my other posts.

If you need to feel like you know more and lcimb harder etc etc.. get on with it.. go you.


shotwell


Mar 17, 2012, 1:51 PM
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Re: [ceebo] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.

Read the OP agin, then read your post again.

Whatever. You're not seeing the obvious problem with your 'daily climbing program.' Nothing new, you don't understand what you're talking about.
.

I did not disagree with what you said.. you just failed hard to realise the exact same logic was covered in my other posts.

If you need to feel like you know more and lcimb harder etc etc.. get on with it.. go you.

You seem to pull this 'insult' out pretty frequently.

Sorry I couldn't follow the logic in your earlier post. If I had realized you were suggesting learning movement skills at 5.easy, then Veasy, then Vmoderate, and finally Vhard (grades omitted as 'hard' is relative) then I would have kept my mouth shut.

Unfortunately you didn't say anything about doing this. You just said climb easy stuff, do movement training, then climb harder stuff other days. You went on to say that movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty, which couldn't be more untrue. Training movement skills requires on learning to use them efficiently on desperate terrain.

I can only pull out of your posts what you put into them.


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 2:58 PM
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Re: [shotwell] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
shotwell wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

To easy, eliminate holds. In fact why even do that? movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty.

To hard?. Considering most ''rainbow'' slabs can be climbed with no hand holds, such a person is in clear need of doing more slab to learn why that skill eludes them. It does not take v3 over hang pulling power to learn whats a miss.

You're wrong. Sorry to say, but 'movement skills' have to be proof tested to be usable. I can dropknee on V0 all day, but I can't apply it to V10 without using it there.

I strongly believe that sound movement skills are the foundation of climbing improvement. Learning skills the first time on easy terrain, then pushing harder and harder is the only way to learn how to actually use something. So it is clear that physical difficulty is required to actually learn a new skill.

Read the OP agin, then read your post again.

Whatever. You're not seeing the obvious problem with your 'daily climbing program.' Nothing new, you don't understand what you're talking about.
.

I did not disagree with what you said.. you just failed hard to realise the exact same logic was covered in my other posts.

If you need to feel like you know more and lcimb harder etc etc.. get on with it.. go you.

You seem to pull this 'insult' out pretty frequently.

Sorry I couldn't follow the logic in your earlier post. If I had realized you were suggesting learning movement skills at 5.easy, then Veasy, then Vmoderate, and finally Vhard (grades omitted as 'hard' is relative) then I would have kept my mouth shut.

Unfortunately you didn't say anything about doing this. You just said climb easy stuff, do movement training, then climb harder stuff other days. You went on to say that movement training should not be hindered by physical difficulty, which couldn't be more untrue. Training movement skills requires on learning to use them efficiently on desperate terrain.

I can only pull out of your posts what you put into them.

I left out the fine details becuase i seen no need for them.. the main intention was to make him aware of how much he would need to restrain himself in order to sustain 7 day week climbing.

It was that simple, but ofc.. being RC everybody wants to chip in and prove they know more.

If you wanne write out a detiled 7 day week training plan for the guy go right head.


(This post was edited by ceebo on Mar 17, 2012, 2:59 PM)


ceebo


Mar 17, 2012, 3:04 PM
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Re: [donwanadi] Gaining Strength [In reply to]
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donwanadi wrote:
ceebo wrote:
donwanadi wrote:
I don't think the same person who boulders v3 at 'near max' is climbing rainbow routes on slab to maintain a light pump.

Not clear what you mean.. the slab is too easy or to hard? In any case you are wrong.

My point is that the difference between v3 and v0 routes for a someone that has been climbing for a week is gigantic. Most people couldn't get off the ground on a V3 in their first month, certainly not their first week.

I'm not suggesting your advice is bad, just that you guys who are more experienced sometimes forget that v0s aren't a warmup for someone in their first weeks of climbing. More than likely he'll have to project v0s and v1s.

And same for you, if you read my original post i did point out that he should be climbing at least a few month before he reconsiders 7 day week climbing. I do not suggest he do it.. but if he does, should he not at least be aware of the restraints he needs to put in place.


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