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saint_john


Mar 28, 2012, 9:12 AM
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keeping rope untangled
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I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.


bearbreeder


Mar 28, 2012, 9:21 AM
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flake it over my shoulders and drop it at the new route ...

i personally dont use a tarp most of the time


jt512


Mar 28, 2012, 9:38 AM
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Re: [saint_john] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

The answer is a rope bag. After each climb, you flake the rope into the bag, obviating the need to flake it again before the next climb. Since most routes don't use the whole rope, after each route, you only have to flake the part of the rope that was actually used. After flaking, always tie the top end of the rope into one of the bag's sewn loops. This prevents you from accidentally tying a knot in the middle of the rope by inadvertently pulling the end of the rope through a loop in the rope when you go to tie in.

Despite years of intense study, the precise mechanism responsible for the knot appearing in the middle of the rope has not been fully elucidated. It's best to just think of it as an act of Godólike socks going missing in the dryer. Likewise, you'll have to take it on faith that tying the end of the rope to the rope bag prevents it.

Jay


edge


Mar 28, 2012, 9:41 AM
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Re: [jt512] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

The answer is a rope bag. After each climb, you flake the rope into the bag, obviating the need to flake it again before the next climb. Since most routes don't use the whole rope, after each route, you only have to flake the part of the rope that was actually used. After flaking, always tie the top end of the rope into one of the bag's sewn loops. This prevents you from accidentally tying a knot in the middle of the rope by inadvertently pulling the end of the rope through a loop in the rope when you go to tie in.

Despite years of intense study, the precise mechanism responsible for the knot appearing in the middle of the rope has not been fully elucidated. It's best to just think of it as an act of Godólike socks going missing in the dryer. Likewise, you'll have to take it on faith that tying the end of the rope to the rope bag prevents it.

Jay

It is also a good idea to keep both ends of the rope tied into the bag with a substantial knot. Assuming the belayer isn't tied in, it's an important safeguard against lowering someone off the end, something which happens much too often.

Edit: If you are whipping a lot, you should also alternate lead ends of the rope occasionally. Easy to do with a rope bag, particularly after a lower when the majority of the rope is hanging off the anchors.


(This post was edited by edge on Mar 28, 2012, 9:46 AM)


saint_john


Mar 28, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Re: [jt512] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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jt512 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

The answer is a rope bag. After each climb, you flake the rope into the bag, obviating the need to flake it again before the next climb. Since most routes don't use the whole rope, after each route, you only have to flake the part of the rope that was actually used. After flaking, always tie the top end of the rope into one of the bag's sewn loops. This prevents you from accidentally tying a knot in the middle of the rope by inadvertently pulling the end of the rope through a loop in the rope when you go to tie in.

Despite years of intense study, the precise mechanism responsible for the knot appearing in the middle of the rope has not been fully elucidated. It's best to just think of it as an act of Godólike socks going missing in the dryer. Likewise, you'll have to take it on faith that tying the end of the rope to the rope bag prevents it.

Jay

Thanks, Jay.
Any recommendation on a rope bag?


jt512


Mar 28, 2012, 10:45 AM
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saint_john wrote:
jt512 wrote:
saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

The answer is a rope bag. After each climb, you flake the rope into the bag, obviating the need to flake it again before the next climb. Since most routes don't use the whole rope, after each route, you only have to flake the part of the rope that was actually used. After flaking, always tie the top end of the rope into one of the bag's sewn loops. This prevents you from accidentally tying a knot in the middle of the rope by inadvertently pulling the end of the rope through a loop in the rope when you go to tie in.

Despite years of intense study, the precise mechanism responsible for the knot appearing in the middle of the rope has not been fully elucidated. It's best to just think of it as an act of Godólike socks going missing in the dryer. Likewise, you'll have to take it on faith that tying the end of the rope to the rope bag prevents it.

Jay

Thanks, Jay.
Any recommendation on a rope bag?

The Metolius Ropemaster. It's pretty much the One True Rope Bag.

Jay


redlude97


Mar 28, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Or if you can still find the Metolius rope ranger, it holds a skinny 70m, draws, and harness with 2 shoulder straps so it can be worn like a backpack so you don't have to haul up 2 packs, or stuff your rope bag into another pack


bearbreeder


Mar 28, 2012, 11:01 AM
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ikea bag ... if you must use one ... costs less than a dolla

save the moola for beer


olderic


Mar 28, 2012, 11:44 AM
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If it is for use in the gym then getting a "real" rope bag is serious overkill - unless having the proper "look" is the intent. Any old cardboard box will do fine - although you will get extra points if it formally held top shelf tequila - and with rigid stay open sides will actually be easier to flake the rope into. Likewise - for the gym it is unlikely you need a full length rope - a "short" would be cheaper, lighter and have less to get kinky and knotty (or kinky and naughty depending on the use). But if you foresee your rig being lugged around outdoors then you might as well get a 70m rope and a high priced bag with all the bells and whistles). At least you will look good and maybe get a better idea of what you want when you do go outside and buy all new stuff anyway.


Partner cracklover


Mar 28, 2012, 1:27 PM
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Re: [saint_john] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

If this is for outside, a rope bag like Jay suggested is worth the investment. If you're talking about climbing in the gym, I don't think it's worth the trouble. Just reflake the rope as needed.

Then, as you're feeding rope out to your leader, keep one eye on the rope coming toward your brake hand. When you see snarls approaching, do a little quick flaking (but don't take your brake hand off!) With practice, you can easily keep the rope feeding smoothly, and the leader never knows you had to do a little extra work. I find it works best to have the rope piled more or less in front of me.

GO


shimanilami


Mar 28, 2012, 1:47 PM
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There is a dude at my gym that uses a basket exactly like the kind snake charmers in India use. It's bad-ass. Every time I look over and see the rope coiling out of that basket, I'm like, "Watch out!! Fucking cobra on the loose!!" And then he flakes the rope back in, like he's charming that cobra back into it's lair. And I'm like, "Fuck, dude. That is so bad-ass."

I mean, a Rope Master is cool and all, but it ain't no cobra basket.


saint_john


Mar 28, 2012, 2:04 PM
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cracklover wrote:
saint_john wrote:
I just started leading and I have a question: How do you keep your rope from becoming a tangled mess when you move from one route to another? I've only been leading indoors so I'm not using a trap under the rope. Is a tarp the answer?
BTW, I flake the rope before I start and butterfly-coil it when I'm done.

If this is for outside, a rope bag like Jay suggested is worth the investment. If you're talking about climbing in the gym, I don't think it's worth the trouble. Just reflake the rope as needed.

Then, as you're feeding rope out to your leader, keep one eye on the rope coming toward your brake hand. When you see snarls approaching, do a little quick flaking (but don't take your brake hand off!) With practice, you can easily keep the rope feeding smoothly, and the leader never knows you had to do a little extra work. I find it works best to have the rope piled more or less in front of me.

GO

Rope will be used outside so I'll probably end up getting a rope bag... or a cobra basket.


bearbreeder


Mar 28, 2012, 2:12 PM
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again ... ikea bag ... it costs 69 cents, is durable, packs to nothing, its both a basket and a bag ... and if yr just dragging it between routes, easier to carry than a tarp/"real" rope bag as you just pick up the 2 handles, instead of the 4 tarp loops

$$$$$ rope bags are one of the biggest waste of money IMO ... for long approaches youll likely just carry the rope on/in yr backpack anyways, for short ones just do the same or carry the ikea bag ... for climbs out here you may not even use a bag as you may need to climb out or do multi as well as crag and yr not going to climb with a rope bag ...


saint_john


Mar 28, 2012, 2:26 PM
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bearbreeder wrote:
again ... ikea bag ... it costs 69 cents, is durable, packs to nothing, its both a basket and a bag ... and if yr just dragging it between routes, easier to carry than a tarp/"real" rope bag as you just pick up the 2 handles, instead of the 4 tarp loops

$$$$$ rope bags are one of the biggest waste of money IMO ... for long approaches youll likely just carry the rope on/in yr backpack anyways, for short ones just do the same or carry the ikea bag ... for climbs out here you may not even use a bag as you may need to climb out or do multi as well as crag and yr not going to climb with a rope bag ...

I Googled Ikea bag... you just might be right.
No Ikea in town, though. Damn.


lena_chita
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Mar 28, 2012, 3:54 PM
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Re: [saint_john] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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saint_john wrote:
bearbreeder wrote:
again ... ikea bag ... it costs 69 cents, is durable, packs to nothing, its both a basket and a bag ... and if yr just dragging it between routes, easier to carry than a tarp/"real" rope bag as you just pick up the 2 handles, instead of the 4 tarp loops

$$$$$ rope bags are one of the biggest waste of money IMO ... for long approaches youll likely just carry the rope on/in yr backpack anyways, for short ones just do the same or carry the ikea bag ... for climbs out here you may not even use a bag as you may need to climb out or do multi as well as crag and yr not going to climb with a rope bag ...

I Googled Ikea bag... you just might be right.
No Ikea in town, though. Damn.

Don't go with the IKEA bag. It is not really rigid enough, especially once you kick it around a few times, so the "walls" would be collapsing in and getting in the way.

For gym and easy-approach single pitch sport climbing, something like Mad Rock rope bucket works much better. It is essentially your collapsible mesh laundry hamper...

For longish approaches, a bag with integrated tarp, such as Metholius suggested by Jay, or BD Superslacker bag work best and they are the most versatile, so if you are planning on climbing outside eventually, and don't want to buy multiple things, they would serve you best long-term, even though they are an overkill for the gym.


bearbreeder


Mar 28, 2012, 4:09 PM
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thats odd ... no one i know has this issue ...


moose_droppings


Mar 28, 2012, 4:58 PM
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You can pick up a pretty decent back pack for under 5 bucks at most second time around shops. Makes it real easy to store your rope off the ground at home too. Toss some gear in the bag on top of the rope and head out.


Kartessa


Mar 28, 2012, 8:52 PM
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I use a grocery box for the gym and easy approach craggin:


For $5, the thing even has carry handles


granite_grrl


Mar 29, 2012, 5:00 AM
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Don't cheap out and get something like an ikea bag, get a proper rope bag with a built in tarp.

Having the tarp allows you to keep your rope a little cleaner. A cleaner rope means less wear on you gear (when you get grit in your rope it acts sorta like sand paper wearing down your biners and belay device).

You could always carry a seperate tarp around too, but a proper rope bag (unlike something like an ikea bag) allows you to quickly bundle up your rope in a neat package, toss it in your pack, walk to the next area and still have a well flaked out rope after unpacking and setting back up (assuming you tie the end in).


shockabuku


Mar 29, 2012, 8:34 AM
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One of the best ways to minimize tangling while climbing indoors is to use the shortest rope you can get away with. Generally for indoor use I use a 100' rope. Taller gyms will obviously require a longer rope.


bearbreeder


Mar 29, 2012, 10:16 AM
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Re: [granite_grrl] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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thats odd ... i climb 5-6 days a week for the last 2 seasons whether permitting ... rarely use a tarp, when i do its an ikea bag ... and my biners and belay devices are just fine

want to bundle up a rope in an ikea bag? ... simply pull the one handle through the other and roll it, then strap to the pack ...

most the guides up here may use a rope bag to carry their ropes, but rarely use the tarp, the rope is often on the ground and in the dirt ...

how many people here who insist on the $$$$$ rope bags actually do longer multis every other day ... when yr doing 6+ pitches at with a lot of ledgy belays at least a few times a week, youll understand the futility of a $$$$ rope bag up here ...

this is a typical belay out here ... id love to see people carry a rope bag up 12+ pitches ... Wink




(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Mar 29, 2012, 10:19 AM)


redlude97


Mar 29, 2012, 10:32 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
thats odd ... i climb 5-6 days a week for the last 2 seasons whether permitting ... rarely use a tarp, when i do its an ikea bag ... and my biners and belay devices are just fine

want to bundle up a rope in an ikea bag? ... simply pull the one handle through the other and roll it, then strap to the pack ...

most the guides up here may use a rope bag to carry their ropes, but rarely use the tarp, the rope is often on the ground and in the dirt ...

how many people here who insist on the $$$$$ rope bags actually do longer multis every other day ... when yr doing 6+ pitches at with a lot of ledgy belays at least a few times a week, youll understand the futility of a $$$$ rope bag up here ...

this is a typical belay out here ... id love to see people carry a rope bag up 12+ pitches ... Wink

[image]http://i40.tinypic.com/sdlagh.jpg[/image]
What is your point? No one is talking about taking a rope tarp up a multipitch. Many of us spend a lot of our days cragging on single pitch stuff. Even your home crag squamish has plenty of single pitch. It would be stupid to continue to drag your rope around in the dirt in those instances


bearbreeder


Mar 29, 2012, 10:40 AM
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well then call me and many guides ive seen around here stupid ... and many of the experienced climbers, or those that climb alot ... many of us dont use tarps on the ground here

and our gear wears just fine, as my partners old solid gates can attest to ...

if its sooo dirty or muddy just use an ikea bag ... its not like a $$$$ rope bag is any better ...

another RC special .. MUST buy a $$$$ rope bag Tongue


redlude97


Mar 29, 2012, 10:49 AM
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bearbreeder wrote:
well then call me and many guides ive seen around here stupid ... and many of the experienced climbers, or those that climb alot ... many of us dont use tarps on the ground here

and our gear wears just fine, as my partners old solid gates can attest to ...

if its sooo dirty or muddy just use an ikea bag ... its not like a $$$$ rope bag is any better ...

another RC special .. MUST buy a $$$$ rope bag Tongue
Whether it is a tarp or a bag keeping your rope off the ground when possible is the smart thing to do. Living in BC/PNW you should be well aware of the conditions at the base of many climbs due to the constant rain. Dragging your rope through that just to be hardcore is stupid.


bearbreeder


Mar 29, 2012, 10:54 AM
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Re: [redlude97] keeping rope untangled [In reply to]
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just keep on calling us stupid ... how often do you climb outside?

like i said ive been climbing more or less full time for the last 2 years ... that means 25+ days in june, july, aug, sept, oct, ~15 days in nov/dec, and maybe 10 days in jan, feb, mar due to weather

neither i nor my partners use rope bag much of the time ... and our gear and ropes wear out just fine

the guides here generally dont use tarps either ... or if they do the rope never ends up on the tarps anyways, and they use their ropes for rope killing applications like top roping and lowering

now im not saying you shouldnt use a bag at all ... im sure certain places have more abrasive dirt ... what im AM saying is that you dont need one up here ... and you dont need a $$$$ one ... just go to ikea

theres a lot of MUST do this, MUST do that on RC ... the reality of actual climbing ignores much of this Wink


(This post was edited by bearbreeder on Mar 29, 2012, 11:16 AM)

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