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rossd


Mar 30, 2012, 5:41 PM
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New Sport Rope time - a lil help please
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Folks,

Were fair weather climbers of single sport pitches. We currently run a Mammut 10.2 and use 1st generation Gri-Gris. We need a 70m but does not need to be all weather. Lets assume money is no object and we would like to get under 10.0 diameter. Without buying gen2 Gris though we certainly could, what is suggested for a top of the line sport rope?

Ross


potreroed


Mar 30, 2012, 6:40 PM
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You can't do any better than Mamut but I would buy whatever is on sale, whatever you can get the best deal on.


rossd


Mar 30, 2012, 6:51 PM
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Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

Thank you,
R


jt512


Mar 30, 2012, 8:00 PM
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rossd wrote:
Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

But then you're stuck with a stiff rope with the hardest catch on the market.

Jay


A-Bowl


Mar 31, 2012, 8:33 AM
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Sterling Ion II 9.4 great rope. great balance between weight savings, low drag and durability.


jbro_135


Mar 31, 2012, 10:33 AM
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rossd wrote:
Folks,

Were fair weather climbers of single sport pitches. We currently run a Mammut 10.2 and use 1st generation Gri-Gris. We need a 70m but does not need to be all weather. Lets assume money is no object and we would like to get under 10.0 diameter. Without buying gen2 Gris though we certainly could, what is suggested for a top of the line sport rope?

Ross


Beal are best. I have their 9.7, it's awesome. Super soft catches and a pretty good price.


rossd


Mar 31, 2012, 3:17 PM
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True, I am the big climber of the group and do most of the belaying. If I don't wear a glove it tends to impact my climbing as the rope tends to really wear on skin that has already done some routes. The Beal's do look interesting though. Figures REI in their infinite wisdom do not sell 80m ropes...


Colinhoglund


Mar 31, 2012, 8:26 PM
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I really like the Mammut infinity 9.5 in a 70. I like the feel and durability of it. However, I have a liking for Beal's soft catch as well, but they don't seem to hold up as well. So unless you hunt for a deal (which I do). I'd recommend the beal 9.7 or the infinity 9.5. However, getting a GriGri 2 might not be a bad idea, works great on the 9.5.


rossd


Mar 31, 2012, 8:42 PM
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Ya no question I was going to upgrade to the GG2 on this go around. Problem is I need an 80m which of course pushes me to a sub 9.7 due to weight considerations.

Ross


Colinhoglund


Mar 31, 2012, 9:20 PM
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Yikes 80m. What crag has 36m + routes without intermediate anchors?


rossd


Mar 31, 2012, 9:39 PM
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Smile
Red Rocks NV has several 10-11's

The 70m would probably be just enough but frankly my thinking is that if your going to spend close to $300 why get a 70m and not just get an 80m and be safe all around.

R


Colinhoglund


Mar 31, 2012, 10:32 PM
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Thats a lot of extra weight to have to lug around for all the not 40m routes. Buy a 70 and bring your 2nd rope when your planning on doing the long ones.
Personally, I can't wait till 50m ropes are back in vogue.


rossd


Mar 31, 2012, 10:43 PM
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Well this is the extra rope to augment the two Mammut 60mm dudress' which goes out with us and wives and friends. However when me and my buddy just go by ourselves we really enjoy seeking our the super long exposed single pitches and to add fun sometimes to do it with no chalk just to mess with the other guy as these routse are rareley climbed. We also DJ, so imagine the dicotomy of playing music all night then going out and doing a 100 footer or three in exposed silence. Well its fun to us anyway. :-)


bearbreeder


Apr 1, 2012, 2:28 AM
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i have an 70m 9.5mm infinity which i mainly use for multi ... works perfectly fine ...

as to hard catches ... note that those sponsored mammut climbers who climb harder than anyone here seem to use em for sport fine

personally id get a 80m if i had to buy one right now ... its very possible that one would end up chopping the ends with enough falls anyways ...


USnavy


Apr 1, 2012, 4:10 AM
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jt512 wrote:
rossd wrote:
Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

with the hardest catch on the market.

Jay
BS, come on JT I know you are experienced enough to know that belayer catch type is far more important than impact force ratings when it comes to catch softness. I climb on the a rope that actually has the highest impact force of any rope on the market, the Maxim Pinnacle, 10.4 kN impact force rating. Well, some of the softest catches I have ever had were on that rope because my belayer knew how to jump.

Just wait until I finish my research regarding low impact force ratings vs high impact force ratings and soft catches versus hard catches. I am not done with the research yet, but from what I have gathered so far, the impact force rating of the rope has less to do with the amount of force placed on the top piece then most people think (at least on single pitch falls). So far, catch type looks like its going to be the number one determining factor, but we will have to wait to see until I am completely though.


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 1, 2012, 4:12 AM)


jt512


Apr 1, 2012, 10:45 AM
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USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
rossd wrote:
Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

with the hardest catch on the market.

Jay
BS, come on JT I know you are experienced enough to know that belayer catch type is far more important than impact force ratings when it comes to catch softness.

I'm experienced enough to know that the "belayer catch type" is sometimes hard.

In reply to:
I climb on the a rope that actually has the highest impact force of any rope on the market, the Maxim Pinnacle, 10.4 kN impact force rating. Well, some of the softest catches I have ever had were on that rope because my belayer knew how to jump.

I'm sure "some" of them were. I want a rope that affords some protection in the other cases.

Jay


USnavy


Apr 1, 2012, 10:56 PM
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jt512 wrote:
USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
rossd wrote:
Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

with the hardest catch on the market.

Jay
BS, come on JT I know you are experienced enough to know that belayer catch type is far more important than impact force ratings when it comes to catch softness.

I'm experienced enough to know that the "belayer catch type" is sometimes hard.

In reply to:
I climb on the a rope that actually has the highest impact force of any rope on the market, the Maxim Pinnacle, 10.4 kN impact force rating. Well, some of the softest catches I have ever had were on that rope because my belayer knew how to jump.

I'm sure "some" of them were. I want a rope that affords some protection in the other cases.

Jay
Indeed, many belayers do give hard catches. But we need to first define what "catch" actually is. Are we talking about the impact force on the top piece (and accordingly, the climber) or are we talking about the phenomena that occurs when the climber pendulums back into the wall after after receiving a a belay from someone who does not time a jump with the fall? Because the two are not the same. The impact force rating of the rope is limited in how much it can reduce the pendulum effect. I tested this a few years back, where I took multiple lead falls on the same bolt, from the same stance on two different ropes. I compared a very high impact force rope (the Maxim Pinnacle) with soft catches from the belayer to a very low impact force rope (Beal Top Gun II) and hard catches. I found I slammed back into the wall significantly harder with the low impact force rope and hard catch. I repeated the test on multiple routes with multiple fall distances and in all cases, the low impact force rope with a hard catch from the belayer resulted in me slamming back into the wall far harder than a soft catch on the high impact force rope. I also compared the rope side by side with the same catch type (soft) and I did not notice a difference in regards to the pendulum effect. But I plan to revisit this after I am done with my highline testing. I want to determine how much of a difference falling on a low impact force rope actually makes in regards to the impact force on the top piece. I suspect its less of a difference then most people think (for falls under FF1).


(This post was edited by USnavy on Apr 1, 2012, 11:04 PM)


billcoe_


Apr 2, 2012, 12:37 PM
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jt512 wrote:
I'm sure "some" of them were. I want a rope that affords some protection in the other cases.

Jay

What ropes do you favor Jay?


jt512


Apr 2, 2012, 12:46 PM
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billcoe_ wrote:
jt512 wrote:
I'm sure "some" of them were. I want a rope that affords some protection in the other cases.

Jay

What ropes do you favor Jay?

I'm a fan of Beal's ropes.

Jay


billcoe_


Apr 2, 2012, 1:08 PM
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A rock hit my 9.4 x 70M Beal Dominator 3 days back. Can feel a slight mushiness in the vicinity and a few exterior tufts marking the spot....having a hard time taking a hot knife to it to chop it at the spot. Love the hand of that rope.

The backup is a brand new 9.4 x 70M Petzl Fuze still in the bag. Climbed on my buddies and it's convinced me to sell that piece of crap and get another Dominator...if the price is right. Petzl sucks.


jt512


Apr 2, 2012, 1:37 PM
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USnavy wrote:
[W]e need to first define what "catch" actually is. Are we talking about the impact force on the top piece (and accordingly, the climber) or are we talking about the phenomena that occurs when the climber pendulums back into the wall after after receiving a a belay from someone who does not time a jump with the fall? Because the two are not the same.

I'm concerned with both. I've had catches hard enough that just the stop at the end of the rope knocked the wind out of me, and I've hit the wall hard enough to have suffered a fairly serious injury.

In reply to:
The impact force rating of the rope is limited in how much it can reduce the pendulum effect. I tested this a few years back, where I took multiple lead falls on the same bolt, from the same stance on two different ropes. I compared a very high impact force rope (the Maxim Pinnacle) with soft catches from the belayer to a very low impact force rope (Beal Top Gun II) and hard catches. I found I slammed back into the wall significantly harder with the low impact force rope and hard catch. I repeated the test on multiple routes with multiple fall distances and in all cases, the low impact force rope with a hard catch from the belayer resulted in me slamming back into the wall far harder than a soft catch on the high impact force rope. I also compared the rope side by side with the same catch type (soft) and I did not notice a difference in regards to the pendulum effect.

With respect to my concern about whether differences in the elasticity of different ropes are sufficient to significantly affect the impact force in actual falls, you didn't do the test that matters, which is to compare different ropes with the same "hard" (ie, minimally dynamic) catch.

In reply to:
But I plan to revisit this after I am done with my highline testing. I want to determine how much of a difference falling on a low impact force rope actually makes in regards to the impact force on the top piece. I suspect its less of a difference then most people think (for falls under FF1).

I suspect that you're right that a good dynamic belay trumps the impact force of the rope. It would be interesting to see that hypothesis tested further, but I hope that you also do the test I suggested with a non-dynamic belay. Just don't get hurt doing it.

Jay


redlude97


Apr 2, 2012, 2:01 PM
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jt512 wrote:
I suspect that you're right that a good dynamic belay trumps the impact force of the rope. It would be interesting to see that hypothesis tested further, but I hope that you also do the test I suggested with a non-dynamic belay. Just don't get hurt doing it.

Jay
If impact force was a major factor in accidents wouldn't we see more reports of such cases? I've been climbing on my mammut infinity for 2+ years along with a wide range of other ropes and haven't had any falls that resulted in excessive wall slamming or bone jarring catches that could be attributed to the particular rope. I'm interested in seeing what USNavy comes up with in his testing as well


jbro_135


Apr 2, 2012, 2:09 PM
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USnavy wrote:
jt512 wrote:
rossd wrote:
Figured as much but I have not "shopped around" since my last rope purchase. REI is having a 20% off sale so hard to beat almost $60 off a Mammut rope.

with the hardest catch on the market.

Jay
BS, come on JT I know you are experienced enough to know that belayer catch type is far more important than impact force ratings when it comes to catch softness. I climb on the a rope that actually has the highest impact force of any rope on the market, the Maxim Pinnacle, 10.4 kN impact force rating. Well, some of the softest catches I have ever had were on that rope because my belayer knew how to jump.

Just wait until I finish my research regarding low impact force ratings vs high impact force ratings and soft catches versus hard catches. I am not done with the research yet, but from what I have gathered so far, the impact force rating of the rope has less to do with the amount of force placed on the top piece then most people think (at least on single pitch falls). So far, catch type looks like its going to be the number one determining factor, but we will have to wait to see until I am completely though.


what if you're looking at a potential ground fall and a soft catch isn't an option?


jt512


Apr 2, 2012, 2:42 PM
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redlude97 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
I suspect that you're right that a good dynamic belay trumps the impact force of the rope. It would be interesting to see that hypothesis tested further, but I hope that you also do the test I suggested with a non-dynamic belay. Just don't get hurt doing it.

Jay
If impact force was a major factor in accidents wouldn't we see more reports of such cases?

Getting slammed into the wall is probably the number one cause of injury in sport climbing. The question is, does a low-impact-force rope help mitigate the risk, or is the rope effect completely dominated by the belayer?

Jay


redlude97


Apr 2, 2012, 2:59 PM
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jt512 wrote:
redlude97 wrote:
jt512 wrote:
I suspect that you're right that a good dynamic belay trumps the impact force of the rope. It would be interesting to see that hypothesis tested further, but I hope that you also do the test I suggested with a non-dynamic belay. Just don't get hurt doing it.

Jay
If impact force was a major factor in accidents wouldn't we see more reports of such cases?

Getting slammed into the wall is probably the number one cause of injury in sport climbing. The question is, does a low-impact-force rope help mitigate the risk, or is the rope effect completely dominated by the belayer?

Jay
I feel it IME the belayer mostly. I've never actually been slammed into the wall with my Mammut, but I would attribute that to my belayers' compentence when using that rope, since it usually isn't brought out for climbing with newer people. But again, only anecdotal evidence, would like to see the testing done

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