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flesh


Apr 4, 2012, 4:41 PM
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Registered: Mar 11, 2011
Posts: 413

Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today.
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I own a few businesses, marketing and financial. I am 33 in two weeks. I have about 30 college credits (couldn't afford it and couldn't get loans because my father made too much money). I'm a high school drop out.

Like climbing, I have a few very specialized niche's that I am good at, based on results. Anything outside of that, I don't claim to be good at.

Today I wrote a check for 23k federal and 5k state. When you write checks like this, it's painful, you tend to think about where it goes and what you realistically done with the money yourself. Also, naturally, you think about how to pay less the next time.

As I understand it, because I have s-corps and LLC's taxed as S-corps, as president/member/manger of my companies, I am required to have my companies pay me as an employee w2, a reasoably high salary. What's reasonable? It's based on what I would have to pay someone to do what I do. LOL, yes, that's the tax law.

In previous years, to lower my tax burden, I would contribute up to 49k per year to a SEP-Ira or 25% of my payroll income, w2, as a employee in my companies. At least, that's what my previous accountant told me.

This year, it turns out, according to my new accountant, that was incorrect. There's some sort of formula used to classify what type of income constitutes the kind of income that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k. He says, that my previous SEP ira contributions were to high, and that if audited, I would have to pay more tax for previous years, clearly I didn't know that. He says that it's rare to get audited going back more than 3 years, so I shouldn't worry about as most of the money contributed was longer than three years ago.

This year, apparently I didn't have very much of the type of income classified as the kind that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k to a sep ira. In fact, only 2.5% of my effective income (what get's deposited into my personal account minus taxes paid through w2 in multiple companies). What does this mean? It means that I could only contribute about 25% of what I thought I would've been able to contribute and therefore paid 7.5% extra of my effective income in tax.

Maybe your thinking, well that seems fair, he accidentally got away with paying less tax in the past, assuming I don't get audited for it, right?

Wrong, I asked both of my accountants over the last 10 years what is the maximum I can contribute to tax deferred retirement accounts, whatever type they are or the strategy to make it happen. I asked them literally dozens of times. Are they bad accountants? I don't know, sometimes they save me money sometime they cost me money. Anyways, it turns out I could've been contributing around 17k/year to a 401k, this ENTIRE TIME. You would think saving your client around 4k/year in taxes for 10 years would be on your suggestion list, no?

Another thing, my bookkeeper accidentally told my accountant that I had 13k in 1099 income from one of my companies, and reported it. I don't understand it all, but apparently, the 13k should not have been 1099 income and because of this it cost me another 2k in tax. I asked my accountant, "If it wasn't supposed to be 1099 income according to the rules, can't we amend it?". Well, we could, but, he says this is a big red flag for getting audited, is it worth potentially getting audited when you know that even your accountants don't seem to know what's actually going on for 2k? No thanks. Enjoy my extra 2k.

If you add this up, If I would've contributed 17k to a 401k and missed the 2k 1099 mistake, I would've paid, legally, 7k less in taxes.

Well, obviously, I just don't know what I'm doing, right? I said that to my accountant, he said, it's not your fault, you income has gone up and down by as much as 500% and down as much as 300% in any given year over the last ten. It's simply to complicated to plan for. We will have to meet monthly to adapt your plan over time. It's only 200/hour. Apparently some years I can contribute alot to a sep and some i can't, but I can to a 401k, and sometimes a roth, sometimes not. Yay.

Accounting costs for me personally for the year? 5% of my effective personal income. I'm so very happy that taxes are so complicated, what a fantastic use of 5% of my income.

My current accountants, a father and son, both with MBA's, both practicing accounting for decades. You should have heard them today debating what should have been done with my situation and what should be done going forward. It's absolutely rediculous. "Let's make this llc own these llc's and those llc's own s-corp's" , "no, let me finish, let's have a llc own 5 irrevocable trust's in his attorney's name". After an hour of this, it was clear, our tax code is way to complicated, it's making our businesses spend money on accounting/bookkeeping/etc that they could be putting into innovation, growth, hiring, etc.

What would I, a business owner, have done with the 28k in tax checks I wrote today, which were in addition to the previous taxes paid through mutiple w2's.

I've already invested a thousands into creating a website. The website is a lead generating tool, just the copy, cost 4k. The intention is to use it for CPA based Inet marketing. Cost per action. It's not quite done. I'll have to wait to do it. It will cost somewhere around 10-30k just to see if my offer is working. I'm assuming it will because I'm using all the same people and strategies of others who are successful doing it.

If it works, it will directly create 2 low wage jobs and around 15 upper middle income jobs. Indirectly, I'm not sure, I wouldn't know where to begen.

It probably seems pretty inexpensive, it's not, it's inexpensive when compared to the return only because I already have the products/services/infrastructure built to support it. Those things alone would cost over 100k, up front. Not counting the value of the knowledge and guts needed to put it all together.

I'll add one more thing to my rant. I received a call from an unidetified number on my cell phone on monday. They asked for me, I assumed it was a telemarketer. I asked who was calling. They said bla bla from the constable's office. I asked why their number was blocked. They said because they need my new address to serve me. At this point, to be clear, I truly had absolutely no clue why anyone would be serving me. I asked the woman, who wants to serve me. She said, I can't tell you, please give me your new address. I said, maybe I don't want to be served, and laughed. Then I said, why don't you just tell me who wants to serve me so that I can call them and take care of the problem instead of wasting time showing up for a court date. Made sense to me, considering I had no clue what it was about. Finally, she said, you need to contact the Attorney generals office and talk to bla bla. I said, you can't tell me what it relates to? She said, it has to do with the division of industrial accidents labor commission. I heard, it's blablablablablablblabl. I said, great, give me the phone number. I still have no clue what it's about.

I end up calling the AG himself, which seemed strange. I left him a VM saying that apparently they wanted to serve me and I didn't know why and that I would like to know why and work it out without going to court.

He called me back, apparently, last July, I received in the mail, a judgment against me for 3k, it had something to do with the fact that one of my companies hadn't paid enough workers comp insurance and they had penalized me. Originally, it wasn't 3k, but they had added penalties and attorneys fees. They had mailed me many times before getting a judgment. I never received them because I hadn't used that company for anything for 2 years and the office at the previous address was gone.

Apparently,it's imporant that the company I'm not running, that doesn't have any employees for over two years, has workers comp insurance. Sweet.

I paid the 3k judgment, I didn't want a lien attached to my property.

Back to the AG, he says, "oh geez were real sorry about the constable's office calling, they hadn't received confirmation from us yet that your judgment was already paid".

I really love all these rules, I'm so glad we can all focus on a bunch of irrelavant bullshit instead of growing our companies.

One more thing, every year, the rules and regs for the industries my companies are a part of change. I have to pay my relatively inexpensive, 150/hr, atttorney to research them. What's even more exciting is that because I market to all fifty states, I have to know what the new and old rules are in all fifty. As you can imagine, this is a great use of resources.

Now, here's the best part. Recently, new regs were made. I must have a 50k bond in every state I do business in, in addition to that, I have to pay the state's various licensing fee's. How much does it cost to do this in all 50 states?

Let me make it simple, if I choose to follow all of the new rules, I would have made 75% less income than I did last year. HMMMM. Decisions , decisions. In otherwords, I could make more money, as an employee with my skills, than owning multiple companies and having a dozen people working for me, not to mention that I indirectly create many jobs. I spend 10k/week just on marketing for example.

Here's the funny thing, alot of the companies in my industry, I know the owners. Guess how many are following ALL of the rules? 1 out of about 5 that I know of. They can afford it, they do 500k/week in revenue.

I am not going to be following all the rules. I'll do my best to take preventatvie measures by providing a quality product and great customer service and hope that nobody ever finds a reason to take a magnifying glass to what I'm doing.

My father owned a company and was sued 5 times over the course of 16 years in business. He always represented himself. He always won. What if he hadn't?

What if there are other rules that I'm not aware of that I'm breaking right now? Should I pay my attorney to look into it or should I invest in my CPA marketing campaign?

What if I get sued, like the judgement, about something I am completely unaware of?

With all this going on, I decided I better protect my assets. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong, other than the recent new rules, which would effectively put me out of business and the taxes I should have paid in the past for contributing too much to my sep ira, per my accoutants advice. Although, once again, I could have saved even more in taxes by paying less to my sep in those years and paying into a 401k as well, if I get audited, this point won't make a difference.

There are simply to many risks, I've been discussing a irrevocable living trust with my attorney. If you look it up, there are many disadvantages. The main advantage is that, whatever is in it, no one can EVER get to, if set up appropriately. I'm paying 2500 to have my attorney set it up, I'm putting my personal property into it and some cash accounts. If my home appreciates, I'll be taxed on it because of this, if I ever sell it. Also, someone else will have control over these things, not me. There are other tax disadvantages, depending on the situation.

When I started my first business, I was so excited, it was risky and fun and challenging. Now, I spend a good part of my time doing things that don't grow the company and worrying about whether or not I'll get in trouble for things I'm not aware of or things I am that I can't control, and taxes.

Okay, I feel a bit better now. I'll try to have a positive attitude and move on to bigger and better things. Maybe in the future, I'll get to a point where I'm not breaking any rules, if I can make it that far.


(This post was edited by flesh on Apr 4, 2012, 4:51 PM)


dr_feelgood


Apr 4, 2012, 5:55 PM
Post #2 of 39 (2469 views)
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Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25628

Re: [flesh] Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
I own a few businesses, marketing and financial. I am 33 in two weeks. I have about 30 college credits (couldn't afford it and couldn't get loans because my father made too much money). I'm a high school drop out.

Like climbing, I have a few very specialized niche's that I am good at, based on results. Anything outside of that, I don't claim to be good at.

Today I wrote a check for 23k federal and 5k state. When you write checks like this, it's painful, you tend to think about where it goes and what you realistically done with the money yourself. Also, naturally, you think about how to pay less the next time.

As I understand it, because I have s-corps and LLC's taxed as S-corps, as president/member/manger of my companies, I am required to have my companies pay me as an employee w2, a reasoably high salary. What's reasonable? It's based on what I would have to pay someone to do what I do. LOL, yes, that's the tax law.

In previous years, to lower my tax burden, I would contribute up to 49k per year to a SEP-Ira or 25% of my payroll income, w2, as a employee in my companies. At least, that's what my previous accountant told me.

This year, it turns out, according to my new accountant, that was incorrect. There's some sort of formula used to classify what type of income constitutes the kind of income that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k. He says, that my previous SEP ira contributions were to high, and that if audited, I would have to pay more tax for previous years, clearly I didn't know that. He says that it's rare to get audited going back more than 3 years, so I shouldn't worry about as most of the money contributed was longer than three years ago.

This year, apparently I didn't have very much of the type of income classified as the kind that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k to a sep ira. In fact, only 2.5% of my effective income (what get's deposited into my personal account minus taxes paid through w2 in multiple companies). What does this mean? It means that I could only contribute about 25% of what I thought I would've been able to contribute and therefore paid 7.5% extra of my effective income in tax.

Maybe your thinking, well that seems fair, he accidentally got away with paying less tax in the past, assuming I don't get audited for it, right?

Wrong, I asked both of my accountants over the last 10 years what is the maximum I can contribute to tax deferred retirement accounts, whatever type they are or the strategy to make it happen. I asked them literally dozens of times. Are they bad accountants? I don't know, sometimes they save me money sometime they cost me money. Anyways, it turns out I could've been contributing around 17k/year to a 401k, this ENTIRE TIME. You would think saving your client around 4k/year in taxes for 10 years would be on your suggestion list, no?

Another thing, my bookkeeper accidentally told my accountant that I had 13k in 1099 income from one of my companies, and reported it. I don't understand it all, but apparently, the 13k should not have been 1099 income and because of this it cost me another 2k in tax. I asked my accountant, "If it wasn't supposed to be 1099 income according to the rules, can't we amend it?". Well, we could, but, he says this is a big red flag for getting audited, is it worth potentially getting audited when you know that even your accountants don't seem to know what's actually going on for 2k? No thanks. Enjoy my extra 2k.

If you add this up, If I would've contributed 17k to a 401k and missed the 2k 1099 mistake, I would've paid, legally, 7k less in taxes.

Well, obviously, I just don't know what I'm doing, right? I said that to my accountant, he said, it's not your fault, you income has gone up and down by as much as 500% and down as much as 300% in any given year over the last ten. It's simply to complicated to plan for. We will have to meet monthly to adapt your plan over time. It's only 200/hour. Apparently some years I can contribute alot to a sep and some i can't, but I can to a 401k, and sometimes a roth, sometimes not. Yay.

Accounting costs for me personally for the year? 5% of my effective personal income. I'm so very happy that taxes are so complicated, what a fantastic use of 5% of my income.

My current accountants, a father and son, both with MBA's, both practicing accounting for decades. You should have heard them today debating what should have been done with my situation and what should be done going forward. It's absolutely rediculous. "Let's make this llc own these llc's and those llc's own s-corp's" , "no, let me finish, let's have a llc own 5 irrevocable trust's in his attorney's name". After an hour of this, it was clear, our tax code is way to complicated, it's making our businesses spend money on accounting/bookkeeping/etc that they could be putting into innovation, growth, hiring, etc.

What would I, a business owner, have done with the 28k in tax checks I wrote today, which were in addition to the previous taxes paid through mutiple w2's.

I've already invested a thousands into creating a website. The website is a lead generating tool, just the copy, cost 4k. The intention is to use it for CPA based Inet marketing. Cost per action. It's not quite done. I'll have to wait to do it. It will cost somewhere around 10-30k just to see if my offer is working. I'm assuming it will because I'm using all the same people and strategies of others who are successful doing it.

If it works, it will directly create 2 low wage jobs and around 15 upper middle income jobs. Indirectly, I'm not sure, I wouldn't know where to begen.

It probably seems pretty inexpensive, it's not, it's inexpensive when compared to the return only because I already have the products/services/infrastructure built to support it. Those things alone would cost over 100k, up front. Not counting the value of the knowledge and guts needed to put it all together.

I'll add one more thing to my rant. I received a call from an unidetified number on my cell phone on monday. They asked for me, I assumed it was a telemarketer. I asked who was calling. They said bla bla from the constable's office. I asked why their number was blocked. They said because they need my new address to serve me. At this point, to be clear, I truly had absolutely no clue why anyone would be serving me. I asked the woman, who wants to serve me. She said, I can't tell you, please give me your new address. I said, maybe I don't want to be served, and laughed. Then I said, why don't you just tell me who wants to serve me so that I can call them and take care of the problem instead of wasting time showing up for a court date. Made sense to me, considering I had no clue what it was about. Finally, she said, you need to contact the Attorney generals office and talk to bla bla. I said, you can't tell me what it relates to? She said, it has to do with the division of industrial accidents labor commission. I heard, it's blablablablablablblabl. I said, great, give me the phone number. I still have no clue what it's about.

I end up calling the AG himself, which seemed strange. I left him a VM saying that apparently they wanted to serve me and I didn't know why and that I would like to know why and work it out without going to court.

He called me back, apparently, last July, I received in the mail, a judgment against me for 3k, it had something to do with the fact that one of my companies hadn't paid enough workers comp insurance and they had penalized me. Originally, it wasn't 3k, but they had added penalties and attorneys fees. They had mailed me many times before getting a judgment. I never received them because I hadn't used that company for anything for 2 years and the office at the previous address was gone.

Apparently,it's imporant that the company I'm not running, that doesn't have any employees for over two years, has workers comp insurance. Sweet.

I paid the 3k judgment, I didn't want a lien attached to my property.

Back to the AG, he says, "oh geez were real sorry about the constable's office calling, they hadn't received confirmation from us yet that your judgment was already paid".

I really love all these rules, I'm so glad we can all focus on a bunch of irrelavant bullshit instead of growing our companies.

One more thing, every year, the rules and regs for the industries my companies are a part of change. I have to pay my relatively inexpensive, 150/hr, atttorney to research them. What's even more exciting is that because I market to all fifty states, I have to know what the new and old rules are in all fifty. As you can imagine, this is a great use of resources.

Now, here's the best part. Recently, new regs were made. I must have a 50k bond in every state I do business in, in addition to that, I have to pay the state's various licensing fee's. How much does it cost to do this in all 50 states?

Let me make it simple, if I choose to follow all of the new rules, I would have made 75% less income than I did last year. HMMMM. Decisions , decisions. In otherwords, I could make more money, as an employee with my skills, than owning multiple companies and having a dozen people working for me, not to mention that I indirectly create many jobs. I spend 10k/week just on marketing for example.

Here's the funny thing, alot of the companies in my industry, I know the owners. Guess how many are following ALL of the rules? 1 out of about 5 that I know of. They can afford it, they do 500k/week in revenue.

I am not going to be following all the rules. I'll do my best to take preventatvie measures by providing a quality product and great customer service and hope that nobody ever finds a reason to take a magnifying glass to what I'm doing.

My father owned a company and was sued 5 times over the course of 16 years in business. He always represented himself. He always won. What if he hadn't?

What if there are other rules that I'm not aware of that I'm breaking right now? Should I pay my attorney to look into it or should I invest in my CPA marketing campaign?

What if I get sued, like the judgement, about something I am completely unaware of?

With all this going on, I decided I better protect my assets. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong, other than the recent new rules, which would effectively put me out of business and the taxes I should have paid in the past for contributing too much to my sep ira, per my accoutants advice. Although, once again, I could have saved even more in taxes by paying less to my sep in those years and paying into a 401k as well, if I get audited, this point won't make a difference.

There are simply to many risks, I've been discussing a irrevocable living trust with my attorney. If you look it up, there are many disadvantages. The main advantage is that, whatever is in it, no one can EVER get to, if set up appropriately. I'm paying 2500 to have my attorney set it up, I'm putting my personal property into it and some cash accounts. If my home appreciates, I'll be taxed on it because of this, if I ever sell it. Also, someone else will have control over these things, not me. There are other tax disadvantages, depending on the situation.

When I started my first business, I was so excited, it was risky and fun and challenging. Now, I spend a good part of my time doing things that don't grow the company and worrying about whether or not I'll get in trouble for things I'm not aware of or things I am that I can't control, and taxes.

Okay, I feel a bit better now. I'll try to have a positive attitude and move on to bigger and better things. Maybe in the future, I'll get to a point where I'm not breaking any rules, if I can make it that far.

IRS CC'd


guangzhou


Apr 4, 2012, 7:27 PM
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Posts: 3388

Re: [flesh] Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today. [In reply to]
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Wonderful being a small business owner in America. In the process of selling my last American business now, once that's done, I will have no business connections to America any more. Will definitely simplify my life.

Of course, we may complicate my life by buying two houses, one in Lake Tahoe and one in Southern France.


squierbypetzl
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Apr 4, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Re: Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today. [In reply to]
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flesh wrote:
I own a few businesses, marketing and financial. I am 33 in two weeks. I have about 30 college credits (couldn't afford it and couldn't get loans because my father made too much money). I'm a high school drop out.

Like climbing, I have a few very specialized niche's that I am good at, based on results. Anything outside of that, I don't claim to be good at.

Today I wrote a check for 23k federal and 5k state. When you write checks like this, it's painful, you tend to think about where it goes and what you realistically done with the money yourself. Also, naturally, you think about how to pay less the next time.

As I understand it, because I have s-corps and LLC's taxed as S-corps, as president/member/manger of my companies, I am required to have my companies pay me as an employee w2, a reasoably high salary. What's reasonable? It's based on what I would have to pay someone to do what I do. LOL, yes, that's the tax law.

In previous years, to lower my tax burden, I would contribute up to 49k per year to a SEP-Ira or 25% of my payroll income, w2, as a employee in my companies. At least, that's what my previous accountant told me.

This year, it turns out, according to my new accountant, that was incorrect. There's some sort of formula used to classify what type of income constitutes the kind of income that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k. He says, that my previous SEP ira contributions were to high, and that if audited, I would have to pay more tax for previous years, clearly I didn't know that. He says that it's rare to get audited going back more than 3 years, so I shouldn't worry about as most of the money contributed was longer than three years ago.

This year, apparently I didn't have very much of the type of income classified as the kind that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k to a sep ira. In fact, only 2.5% of my effective income (what get's deposited into my personal account minus taxes paid through w2 in multiple companies). What does this mean? It means that I could only contribute about 25% of what I thought I would've been able to contribute and therefore paid 7.5% extra of my effective income in tax.

Maybe your thinking, well that seems fair, he accidentally got away with paying less tax in the past, assuming I don't get audited for it, right?

Wrong, I asked both of my accountants over the last 10 years what is the maximum I can contribute to tax deferred retirement accounts, whatever type they are or the strategy to make it happen. I asked them literally dozens of times. Are they bad accountants? I don't know, sometimes they save me money sometime they cost me money. Anyways, it turns out I could've been contributing around 17k/year to a 401k, this ENTIRE TIME. You would think saving your client around 4k/year in taxes for 10 years would be on your suggestion list, no?

Another thing, my bookkeeper accidentally told my accountant that I had 13k in 1099 income from one of my companies, and reported it. I don't understand it all, but apparently, the 13k should not have been 1099 income and because of this it cost me another 2k in tax. I asked my accountant, "If it wasn't supposed to be 1099 income according to the rules, can't we amend it?". Well, we could, but, he says this is a big red flag for getting audited, is it worth potentially getting audited when you know that even your accountants don't seem to know what's actually going on for 2k? No thanks. Enjoy my extra 2k.

If you add this up, If I would've contributed 17k to a 401k and missed the 2k 1099 mistake, I would've paid, legally, 7k less in taxes.

Well, obviously, I just don't know what I'm doing, right? I said that to my accountant, he said, it's not your fault, you income has gone up and down by as much as 500% and down as much as 300% in any given year over the last ten. It's simply to complicated to plan for. We will have to meet monthly to adapt your plan over time. It's only 200/hour. Apparently some years I can contribute alot to a sep and some i can't, but I can to a 401k, and sometimes a roth, sometimes not. Yay.

Accounting costs for me personally for the year? 5% of my effective personal income. I'm so very happy that taxes are so complicated, what a fantastic use of 5% of my income.

My current accountants, a father and son, both with MBA's, both practicing accounting for decades. You should have heard them today debating what should have been done with my situation and what should be done going forward. It's absolutely rediculous. "Let's make this llc own these llc's and those llc's own s-corp's" , "no, let me finish, let's have a llc own 5 irrevocable trust's in his attorney's name". After an hour of this, it was clear, our tax code is way to complicated, it's making our businesses spend money on accounting/bookkeeping/etc that they could be putting into innovation, growth, hiring, etc.

What would I, a business owner, have done with the 28k in tax checks I wrote today, which were in addition to the previous taxes paid through mutiple w2's.

I've already invested a thousands into creating a website. The website is a lead generating tool, just the copy, cost 4k. The intention is to use it for CPA based Inet marketing. Cost per action. It's not quite done. I'll have to wait to do it. It will cost somewhere around 10-30k just to see if my offer is working. I'm assuming it will because I'm using all the same people and strategies of others who are successful doing it.

If it works, it will directly create 2 low wage jobs and around 15 upper middle income jobs. Indirectly, I'm not sure, I wouldn't know where to begen.

It probably seems pretty inexpensive, it's not, it's inexpensive when compared to the return only because I already have the products/services/infrastructure built to support it. Those things alone would cost over 100k, up front. Not counting the value of the knowledge and guts needed to put it all together.

I'll add one more thing to my rant. I received a call from an unidetified number on my cell phone on monday. They asked for me, I assumed it was a telemarketer. I asked who was calling. They said bla bla from the constable's office. I asked why their number was blocked. They said because they need my new address to serve me. At this point, to be clear, I truly had absolutely no clue why anyone would be serving me. I asked the woman, who wants to serve me. She said, I can't tell you, please give me your new address. I said, maybe I don't want to be served, and laughed. Then I said, why don't you just tell me who wants to serve me so that I can call them and take care of the problem instead of wasting time showing up for a court date. Made sense to me, considering I had no clue what it was about. Finally, she said, you need to contact the Attorney generals office and talk to bla bla. I said, you can't tell me what it relates to? She said, it has to do with the division of industrial accidents labor commission. I heard, it's blablablablablablblabl. I said, great, give me the phone number. I still have no clue what it's about.

I end up calling the AG himself, which seemed strange. I left him a VM saying that apparently they wanted to serve me and I didn't know why and that I would like to know why and work it out without going to court.

He called me back, apparently, last July, I received in the mail, a judgment against me for 3k, it had something to do with the fact that one of my companies hadn't paid enough workers comp insurance and they had penalized me. Originally, it wasn't 3k, but they had added penalties and attorneys fees. They had mailed me many times before getting a judgment. I never received them because I hadn't used that company for anything for 2 years and the office at the previous address was gone.

Apparently,it's imporant that the company I'm not running, that doesn't have any employees for over two years, has workers comp insurance. Sweet.

I paid the 3k judgment, I didn't want a lien attached to my property.

Back to the AG, he says, "oh geez were real sorry about the constable's office calling, they hadn't received confirmation from us yet that your judgment was already paid".

I really love all these rules, I'm so glad we can all focus on a bunch of irrelavant bullshit instead of growing our companies.

One more thing, every year, the rules and regs for the industries my companies are a part of change. I have to pay my relatively inexpensive, 150/hr, atttorney to research them. What's even more exciting is that because I market to all fifty states, I have to know what the new and old rules are in all fifty. As you can imagine, this is a great use of resources.

Now, here's the best part. Recently, new regs were made. I must have a 50k bond in every state I do business in, in addition to that, I have to pay the state's various licensing fee's. How much does it cost to do this in all 50 states?

Let me make it simple, if I choose to follow all of the new rules, I would have made 75% less income than I did last year. HMMMM. Decisions , decisions. In otherwords, I could make more money, as an employee with my skills, than owning multiple companies and having a dozen people working for me, not to mention that I indirectly create many jobs. I spend 10k/week just on marketing for example.

Here's the funny thing, alot of the companies in my industry, I know the owners. Guess how many are following ALL of the rules? 1 out of about 5 that I know of. They can afford it, they do 500k/week in revenue.

I am not going to be following all the rules. I'll do my best to take preventatvie measures by providing a quality product and great customer service and hope that nobody ever finds a reason to take a magnifying glass to what I'm doing.

My father owned a company and was sued 5 times over the course of 16 years in business. He always represented himself. He always won. What if he hadn't?

What if there are other rules that I'm not aware of that I'm breaking right now? Should I pay my attorney to look into it or should I invest in my CPA marketing campaign?

What if I get sued, like the judgement, about something I am completely unaware of?

With all this going on, I decided I better protect my assets. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong, other than the recent new rules, which would effectively put me out of business and the taxes I should have paid in the past for contributing too much to my sep ira, per my accoutants advice. Although, once again, I could have saved even more in taxes by paying less to my sep in those years and paying into a 401k as well, if I get audited, this point won't make a difference.

There are simply to many risks, I've been discussing a irrevocable living trust with my attorney. If you look it up, there are many disadvantages. The main advantage is that, whatever is in it, no one can EVER get to, if set up appropriately. I'm paying 2500 to have my attorney set it up, I'm putting my personal property into it and some cash accounts. If my home appreciates, I'll be taxed on it because of this, if I ever sell it. Also, someone else will have control over these things, not me. There are other tax disadvantages, depending on the situation.

When I started my first business, I was so excited, it was risky and fun and challenging. Now, I spend a good part of my time doing things that don't grow the company and worrying about whether or not I'll get in trouble for things I'm not aware of or things I am that I can't control, and taxes.

Okay, I feel a bit better now. I'll try to have a positive attitude and move on to bigger and better things. Maybe in the future, I'll get to a point where I'm not breaking any rules, if I can make it that far.

dr_feelgood wrote:
IRS CC'd

Indeed. It seems that no matter how badly I try to get away from work, it always finds a way to me. If only all our cases would come with a written confession attached.


squierbypetzl
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Apr 4, 2012, 10:46 PM
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I'm just kidding of course, I'm not a taxman, I'm just waiting for my movie to download (legally, g-men, legally).


scrapedape


Apr 5, 2012, 2:39 AM
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flesh wrote:
I own a few businesses, marketing and financial. I am 33 in two weeks. I have about 30 college credits (couldn't afford it and couldn't get loans because my father made too much money). I'm a high school drop out.

Like climbing, I have a few very specialized niche's that I am good at, based on results. Anything outside of that, I don't claim to be good at.

Today I wrote a check for 23k federal and 5k state. When you write checks like this, it's painful, you tend to think about where it goes and what you realistically done with the money yourself. Also, naturally, you think about how to pay less the next time.

As I understand it, because I have s-corps and LLC's taxed as S-corps, as president/member/manger of my companies, I am required to have my companies pay me as an employee w2, a reasoably high salary. What's reasonable? It's based on what I would have to pay someone to do what I do. LOL, yes, that's the tax law.

In previous years, to lower my tax burden, I would contribute up to 49k per year to a SEP-Ira or 25% of my payroll income, w2, as a employee in my companies. At least, that's what my previous accountant told me.

This year, it turns out, according to my new accountant, that was incorrect. There's some sort of formula used to classify what type of income constitutes the kind of income that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k. He says, that my previous SEP ira contributions were to high, and that if audited, I would have to pay more tax for previous years, clearly I didn't know that. He says that it's rare to get audited going back more than 3 years, so I shouldn't worry about as most of the money contributed was longer than three years ago.

This year, apparently I didn't have very much of the type of income classified as the kind that you can then contribute 25% of up to 49k to a sep ira. In fact, only 2.5% of my effective income (what get's deposited into my personal account minus taxes paid through w2 in multiple companies). What does this mean? It means that I could only contribute about 25% of what I thought I would've been able to contribute and therefore paid 7.5% extra of my effective income in tax.

Maybe your thinking, well that seems fair, he accidentally got away with paying less tax in the past, assuming I don't get audited for it, right?

Wrong, I asked both of my accountants over the last 10 years what is the maximum I can contribute to tax deferred retirement accounts, whatever type they are or the strategy to make it happen. I asked them literally dozens of times. Are they bad accountants? I don't know, sometimes they save me money sometime they cost me money. Anyways, it turns out I could've been contributing around 17k/year to a 401k, this ENTIRE TIME. You would think saving your client around 4k/year in taxes for 10 years would be on your suggestion list, no?

Another thing, my bookkeeper accidentally told my accountant that I had 13k in 1099 income from one of my companies, and reported it. I don't understand it all, but apparently, the 13k should not have been 1099 income and because of this it cost me another 2k in tax. I asked my accountant, "If it wasn't supposed to be 1099 income according to the rules, can't we amend it?". Well, we could, but, he says this is a big red flag for getting audited, is it worth potentially getting audited when you know that even your accountants don't seem to know what's actually going on for 2k? No thanks. Enjoy my extra 2k.

If you add this up, If I would've contributed 17k to a 401k and missed the 2k 1099 mistake, I would've paid, legally, 7k less in taxes.

Well, obviously, I just don't know what I'm doing, right? I said that to my accountant, he said, it's not your fault, you income has gone up and down by as much as 500% and down as much as 300% in any given year over the last ten. It's simply to complicated to plan for. We will have to meet monthly to adapt your plan over time. It's only 200/hour. Apparently some years I can contribute alot to a sep and some i can't, but I can to a 401k, and sometimes a roth, sometimes not. Yay.

Accounting costs for me personally for the year? 5% of my effective personal income. I'm so very happy that taxes are so complicated, what a fantastic use of 5% of my income.

My current accountants, a father and son, both with MBA's, both practicing accounting for decades. You should have heard them today debating what should have been done with my situation and what should be done going forward. It's absolutely rediculous. "Let's make this llc own these llc's and those llc's own s-corp's" , "no, let me finish, let's have a llc own 5 irrevocable trust's in his attorney's name". After an hour of this, it was clear, our tax code is way to complicated, it's making our businesses spend money on accounting/bookkeeping/etc that they could be putting into innovation, growth, hiring, etc.

What would I, a business owner, have done with the 28k in tax checks I wrote today, which were in addition to the previous taxes paid through mutiple w2's.

I've already invested a thousands into creating a website. The website is a lead generating tool, just the copy, cost 4k. The intention is to use it for CPA based Inet marketing. Cost per action. It's not quite done. I'll have to wait to do it. It will cost somewhere around 10-30k just to see if my offer is working. I'm assuming it will because I'm using all the same people and strategies of others who are successful doing it.

If it works, it will directly create 2 low wage jobs and around 15 upper middle income jobs. Indirectly, I'm not sure, I wouldn't know where to begen.

It probably seems pretty inexpensive, it's not, it's inexpensive when compared to the return only because I already have the products/services/infrastructure built to support it. Those things alone would cost over 100k, up front. Not counting the value of the knowledge and guts needed to put it all together.

I'll add one more thing to my rant. I received a call from an unidetified number on my cell phone on monday. They asked for me, I assumed it was a telemarketer. I asked who was calling. They said bla bla from the constable's office. I asked why their number was blocked. They said because they need my new address to serve me. At this point, to be clear, I truly had absolutely no clue why anyone would be serving me. I asked the woman, who wants to serve me. She said, I can't tell you, please give me your new address. I said, maybe I don't want to be served, and laughed. Then I said, why don't you just tell me who wants to serve me so that I can call them and take care of the problem instead of wasting time showing up for a court date. Made sense to me, considering I had no clue what it was about. Finally, she said, you need to contact the Attorney generals office and talk to bla bla. I said, you can't tell me what it relates to? She said, it has to do with the division of industrial accidents labor commission. I heard, it's blablablablablablblabl. I said, great, give me the phone number. I still have no clue what it's about.

I end up calling the AG himself, which seemed strange. I left him a VM saying that apparently they wanted to serve me and I didn't know why and that I would like to know why and work it out without going to court.

He called me back, apparently, last July, I received in the mail, a judgment against me for 3k, it had something to do with the fact that one of my companies hadn't paid enough workers comp insurance and they had penalized me. Originally, it wasn't 3k, but they had added penalties and attorneys fees. They had mailed me many times before getting a judgment. I never received them because I hadn't used that company for anything for 2 years and the office at the previous address was gone.

Apparently,it's imporant that the company I'm not running, that doesn't have any employees for over two years, has workers comp insurance. Sweet.

I paid the 3k judgment, I didn't want a lien attached to my property.

Back to the AG, he says, "oh geez were real sorry about the constable's office calling, they hadn't received confirmation from us yet that your judgment was already paid".

I really love all these rules, I'm so glad we can all focus on a bunch of irrelavant bullshit instead of growing our companies.

One more thing, every year, the rules and regs for the industries my companies are a part of change. I have to pay my relatively inexpensive, 150/hr, atttorney to research them. What's even more exciting is that because I market to all fifty states, I have to know what the new and old rules are in all fifty. As you can imagine, this is a great use of resources.

Now, here's the best part. Recently, new regs were made. I must have a 50k bond in every state I do business in, in addition to that, I have to pay the state's various licensing fee's. How much does it cost to do this in all 50 states?

Let me make it simple, if I choose to follow all of the new rules, I would have made 75% less income than I did last year. HMMMM. Decisions , decisions. In otherwords, I could make more money, as an employee with my skills, than owning multiple companies and having a dozen people working for me, not to mention that I indirectly create many jobs. I spend 10k/week just on marketing for example.

Here's the funny thing, alot of the companies in my industry, I know the owners. Guess how many are following ALL of the rules? 1 out of about 5 that I know of. They can afford it, they do 500k/week in revenue.

I am not going to be following all the rules. I'll do my best to take preventatvie measures by providing a quality product and great customer service and hope that nobody ever finds a reason to take a magnifying glass to what I'm doing.

My father owned a company and was sued 5 times over the course of 16 years in business. He always represented himself. He always won. What if he hadn't?

What if there are other rules that I'm not aware of that I'm breaking right now? Should I pay my attorney to look into it or should I invest in my CPA marketing campaign?

What if I get sued, like the judgement, about something I am completely unaware of?

With all this going on, I decided I better protect my assets. As far as I know, I'm not doing anything wrong, other than the recent new rules, which would effectively put me out of business and the taxes I should have paid in the past for contributing too much to my sep ira, per my accoutants advice. Although, once again, I could have saved even more in taxes by paying less to my sep in those years and paying into a 401k as well, if I get audited, this point won't make a difference.

There are simply to many risks, I've been discussing a irrevocable living trust with my attorney. If you look it up, there are many disadvantages. The main advantage is that, whatever is in it, no one can EVER get to, if set up appropriately. I'm paying 2500 to have my attorney set it up, I'm putting my personal property into it and some cash accounts. If my home appreciates, I'll be taxed on it because of this, if I ever sell it. Also, someone else will have control over these things, not me. There are other tax disadvantages, depending on the situation.

When I started my first business, I was so excited, it was risky and fun and challenging. Now, I spend a good part of my time doing things that don't grow the company and worrying about whether or not I'll get in trouble for things I'm not aware of or things I am that I can't control, and taxes.

Okay, I feel a bit better now. I'll try to have a positive attitude and move on to bigger and better things. Maybe in the future, I'll get to a point where I'm not breaking any rules, if I can make it that far.

And you think Mitt Romney is going to fix this?


petsfed


Apr 7, 2012, 7:41 AM
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Re: [flesh] Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today. [In reply to]
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I understood only enough of that to agree that the current tax code is waaay too complicated. Beyond that, the amount you wrote a check for is more than I have ever made in a single year, so its like a bear complaining to a shark that its knees hurt. I'm sure its unpleasant, I just have absolutely no way to relate.


guangzhou


Apr 7, 2012, 7:21 PM
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petsfed wrote:
I understood only enough of that to agree that the current tax code is waaay too complicated. Beyond that, the amount you wrote a check for is more than I have ever made in a single year, so its like a bear complaining to a shark that its knees hurt. I'm sure its unpleasant, I just have absolutely no way to relate.

Maybe you need to change you career.

Oh wait, you've been a full-time student how long now?


petsfed


Apr 8, 2012, 9:56 AM
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Re: [guangzhou] Thoughts as I write my state and federal tax checks today. [In reply to]
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It was a joke.

Thanks to being paid to go to school, my annual income was high enough this year that I very nearly had to pay additional taxes despite (by my reckoning at any rate) making the same amount as last year and not really changing my lifestyle or my expenditures.

Honestly, I look forward to making enough (and not being in school) so the total number of deductions I can take will shrink again and my taxes are more straightforward.

I've spent the last 10 years of my life developing the ability to analyze complicated systems and understand how my inputs change the output. Its very frustrating to me (and I'm sure flesh can relate) that something everybody has to do is so open to interpretation that depending on how complicated my earnings are, my taxes become less an analytic exercise and more some kind of interpretive dance. And I've only scratched the surface of tax complexity. What flesh is going through is so completely beyond my (admittedly limited) experience that all I can say is "well, that sounds unpleasant" even though I may someday share his frustrations.

The tax code is too complicated. Whether that means there are too many loopholes for the rich, or that the average taxpayer has to pay somebody to avoid being audited is largely a matter of ideology. My goal in responding was to state that the tax code is too complicated for everybody involved, rich and poor alike, and that I should be able to look at the records of somebody like flesh or Romney or whoever and say "yeah, that looks right", and not wait for somebody with a bias or an axe to grind to interpret otherwise very simple numbers for me. Audits should be about finding income not claimed on the tax documents, not trying to figure out if an income freely claimed is taxable in the way the claimant believes.


styndall


Apr 8, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Guangzhou doesn't seem to understand graduate education very well. He actually advised a potential PhD student in one of the General threads just to go wherever the climbing was best, because employers won't care where a degree comes from.


dr_feelgood


Apr 8, 2012, 11:09 AM
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styndall wrote:
Guangzhou doesn't seem to understand graduate education very well. He actually advised a potential PhD student in one of the General threads just to go wherever the climbing was best, because employers won't care where a degree comes from.

The funny part is that he actually thinks grad students have significant amounts of time to go climbing.


scrapedape


Apr 8, 2012, 11:43 AM
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dr_feelgood wrote:
styndall wrote:
Guangzhou doesn't seem to understand graduate education very well. He actually advised a potential PhD student in one of the General threads just to go wherever the climbing was best, because employers won't care where a degree comes from.

The funny part is that he actually thinks grad students have significant amounts of time to go climbing.

You bet we do! Why, last year alone I must have climbed 10 times!!!!


guangzhou


Apr 9, 2012, 6:04 AM
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Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.


scrapedape


Apr 9, 2012, 6:22 AM
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guangzhou wrote:
Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.

It's odd how you assume that because I'm in grad school, I have never been outside of academia.


scrapedape


Apr 9, 2012, 6:29 AM
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styndall wrote:
Guangzhou doesn't seem to understand graduate education very well. He actually advised a potential PhD student in one of the General threads just to go wherever the climbing was best, because employers won't care where a degree comes from.

Notice how he's not jumping in to defend that proposition here.

I will say this: some employers may not be too concerned with where your PhD came from. However, for many other jobs that require a PhD, where it came from will indeed be important. I'm guessing that guangzhou wouldn't give two shits where a potential employee got his PhD, since a PhD isn't really the price of admission to working in a climbing gym. (and once again, for guangzhou, the anecdote trumps the statistic)


atg200


Apr 9, 2012, 7:21 AM
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flesh


Apr 9, 2012, 11:14 AM
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I don't want Romney to fix anything. I want him to get out of the way of business and make things better for business owners. The fact is he made himself in the private, not the public, sector. Naturally, he will be biased towards the private sector unlike someone who came from the public sector, whoever that someone may be.

He, like me, was forced to deal with similar and much more complicated issues involving taxes, regs, rules, etc. It's ingrained to his very being, like me, after years and years of it, it becomes very clear.

It's easy to find fault in business owners if you want to attack from partisan politic standpoints.

Imagine someone had the dirt on me and I was running for office.

You might see headlines like "lied about deductions" "knowingly broke regulations" "fired many people without notice" "had judgments against him for ............" "Hid his money in trusts" "father was in many lawsuits" "pays his employees as little as possible" "was sexist, had very few women working for him". Haha, I had a fight about that last one with my very feminist sister just two weeks ago. It just so happens that women don't want straight commission sales jobs. I assured her that if a woman could make me money, I would be very happy about that, anyone who makes me money is an asset. The company i started at had 70 sales people, all men. I told her I would give her a straight commission sales job (she does my books), she declined. Don't hate the player.

Parts of all of those statements are true. If you read that, without reading and understanding from my perspective, it would be easy to get the wrong impression. Plus, most people, even very intelligent folks, wouldn't be able to "relate" to my perspective. Most people aren't business owners and they never will be.


scrapedape


Apr 9, 2012, 11:48 AM
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flesh wrote:
I don't want Romney to fix anything. I want him to get out of the way of business and make things better for business owners.

For Christ's sake, you contradicted yourself in the very next sentence.


Partner j_ung


Apr 9, 2012, 1:59 PM
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Meanwhile, I'm struggling to pay bills and feed my family. I must be lazy.


scrapedape


Apr 9, 2012, 2:33 PM
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j_ung wrote:
Meanwhile, I'm struggling to pay bills and feed my family. I must be lazy.

It's ok Jay. There's someone who understands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rTHJEoZ6xo


ubu


Apr 9, 2012, 7:13 PM
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guangzhou wrote:
Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.

You have no clue what you're talking about here.


guangzhou


Apr 9, 2012, 7:30 PM
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atg200 wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.

Well, reading your posts makes it very clear that if you've spent any time at all in academia you put no effort in to it, so it is no surprise that you think they have time to spare.

I've spent very little time for sure. just my under grad and a graduate degree. A few more credit here and there towards a PHD, but didn't see the need to continue even in my previous career.

Barely over a decade as an educator actually.

If grad school is so time consuming, how are so many getting their Masters and PHD while working full-time too?

My son graduated from MIT, works for Boise, the guy at the next desk graduated from TN Tech. Both have a degree in Electrical engineering, both started with the same salary the same month.

Both are now going to have an MBA paid for by one of Boise's programs. They will continue to work full time and attend Haward Business School outside of work.


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Apr 9, 2012, 7:38 PM)


atg200


Apr 9, 2012, 7:35 PM
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guangzhou


Apr 9, 2012, 7:42 PM
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atg200 wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
atg200 wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.

Well, reading your posts makes it very clear that if you've spent any time at all in academia you put no effort in to it, so it is no surprise that you think they have time to spare.

I've spent very little time for just. Barely over a decade as an educator actually.

If grad school is so time consuming, how are so many getting their Masters and PHD while working full-time too?

You really have no idea. You can get a shitty MBA at a diploma mill while working full time if you have an easy flexible job. You certainly can't get a doctorate from a serious institution while working much, if at all.

I'll keep that in mind about Harvard Business School being a shitty institution. Same with MIT by the way.

I earned my Masters from Buffalo State in New York, not a great institute, but again, no one has ever asked me where the degree came from before or during an interview.


styndall


Apr 9, 2012, 7:47 PM
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guangzhou wrote:
atg200 wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
atg200 wrote:
guangzhou wrote:
Only actual grad students believe otherwise.

Check back with me in ten years after you've been in the real world versus the halls of academia. I think you'll be surprised.

Well, reading your posts makes it very clear that if you've spent any time at all in academia you put no effort in to it, so it is no surprise that you think they have time to spare.

I've spent very little time for just. Barely over a decade as an educator actually.

If grad school is so time consuming, how are so many getting their Masters and PHD while working full-time too?

You really have no idea. You can get a shitty MBA at a diploma mill while working full time if you have an easy flexible job. You certainly can't get a doctorate from a serious institution while working much, if at all.

I'll keep that in mind about Harvard Business School being a shitty institution. Same with MIT by the way.

I earned my Masters from Buffalo State in New York, not a great institute, but again, no one has ever asked me where the degree came from before or during an interview.

Has it occurred to you that business degrees might be a touch different than academic degrees? Both in structure and in eventual expectation?

If you want a solid research position anywhere (big universities, non-profits, private companies), they're definitely going to care about your research history, which is built on the basis of the particular training you get at a particular institution.

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