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Rockalanche


Apr 7, 2012, 12:33 PM
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Correct Anchor?
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Hello, Assuming the deck posts that the ropes are around are actually anchor with locking carabiners in them. Is this a safe and correct setup for a top anchor?

Thanks
Libby
Attachments: Anchor.JPG (57.4 KB)


nkane


Apr 7, 2012, 12:49 PM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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I'd climb on it. Frankly, it's overkill.


Rockalanche


Apr 7, 2012, 1:39 PM
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Re: [nkane] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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What do you mean by overkill?


Marylandclimber


Apr 7, 2012, 3:05 PM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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I think its good but I'd take one long sling and connect them all then tie one figure eight.


qwert


Apr 8, 2012, 1:48 AM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Rockalanche wrote:
Is this a safe and correct setup for a top anchor?
Safe?
If whatever things you are going to substitute your deck posts with are safe, then yes.

Correct?
While the term correct is rather hard to define in climbing, that crap certainly aint correct.

Obligatory:
Read a book, take a course, hire a guide, go out with someone experienced, u r gunna dye, toproping should be a crime punishable by death, etc.

qwert


Rockalanche


Apr 8, 2012, 6:54 AM
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Re: [qwert] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Well if you read what I wrote I said assuming the deck posts will be anchors clipped with carabiners.

And how about instead of mindless cold criticism you could tell me what is wrong because I don't have the luxury of hiring a guide.


jmichael


Apr 8, 2012, 8:30 AM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Your setup would be fine, its just too complicated. As anything gets more complicated the chance that you do something wrong increases.

My go to top rope anchor is a double length sling. The setup looks like the one on the left. I typically use lockers in the bolts as well as the power point, but non lockers are okay.


If you're using gear to build an anchor instead of bolts you will want three pieces, or if the bolts are questionable use them and back them up with a piece of gear. In which case you could build the anchor the same way just using a longer sling or cordellette.

Still your best bet is to buy a book. Both of these are done well.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=climbing+anchors&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=2481253177915931265&sa=X&ei=qK6BT8ifNsO-2gXM0OTtBg&ved=0CFgQ8wIwAg

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=climbing+anchors&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=16307402401673006903&sa=X&ei=qK6BT8ifNsO-2gXM0OTtBg&ved=0CFMQ8wIwAQ


(This post was edited by jmichael on Apr 8, 2012, 8:32 AM)


marc801


Apr 8, 2012, 8:43 AM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Rockalanche wrote:
And how about instead of mindless cold criticism you could tell me what is wrong because I don't have the luxury of hiring a guide.
Quit whining about the luxury of a guide and, as others here and in the numerous other threads on this same topic have said - BUY A BOOK! The ones on climbing anchors by Long and Lubben are excellent starting points. *Then* you'll be able to ask relevant and intelligent questions and not be confused when someone says your anchor is overkill.


qwert


Apr 8, 2012, 9:27 AM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Rockalanche wrote:
Well if you read what I wrote I said assuming the deck posts will be anchors clipped with carabiners.
And those anchors are exactly what defines the safety of your whole clusterfuck. If its good bolts, or trees, or good pro, then yes, you'll be safe.

If your anchors are self placed pro, that you place with the same skills as you invent anchors, then you will not be safe.

In reply to:
And how about instead of mindless cold criticism you could tell me what is wrong because I don't have the luxury of hiring a guide.
If you want to know exactly whats wrong:
You just tied some crap together without a having a clue about what you are doing. In a sport where a mistake might as well kill someone.

qwert


hill07


Apr 8, 2012, 12:27 PM
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Re: [marc801] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Your setup will be just fine, except if your a beginner then top anchors are out of your league. If you mess up, you die. Also instead of attacking the people who criticize you, listen to them and they will help you. Make more friends that way


squierbypetzl
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Apr 8, 2012, 8:47 PM
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Re: Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Everybody bring it down a notch. Blue forum, remember?

The anchor setup in Jmichaels image is more than enough to keep you safe on most bolted sport climbs. Your own setup was a bit too redundant, unnecessarily so, and could lead to a mistake which would lead to an accident.



Most people use 2 opposed non-locking biners for the power point. If you feel better using lockers all around, feel free.

edit: upon further review, it seems I'm taking some things for granted. What knots are you using on the cordelettes?


(This post was edited by squierbypetzl on Apr 8, 2012, 8:51 PM)


bodie1kanobie


Apr 11, 2012, 9:58 AM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Rockalanche wrote:
What do you mean by overkill?


o·ver·kill (vr-kl)
n.
1. Destructive nuclear capacity exceeding the amount needed to destroy an enemy.
2. Excessive killing.
3. An excess of what is necessary or appropriate for a particular end: "government overkill in dealing with dissent" (Jesse Unruh).
tr.v. (vr-kl) o·ver·killed, o·ver·kill·ing, o·ver·kills
To destroy (an enemy or enemy target) with more nuclear force than necessary.


you can find this, and many other phenomenally obvious definitions at: www.thefreedictionary.com/


jt512


Apr 11, 2012, 10:19 AM
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Re: [bodie1kanobie] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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bodie1kanobie wrote:
Rockalanche wrote:
What do you mean by overkill?


o·ver·kill (vr-kl)
n.
1. Destructive nuclear capacity exceeding the amount needed to destroy an enemy.
2. Excessive killing.
3. An excess of what is necessary or appropriate for a particular end: "government overkill in dealing with dissent" (Jesse Unruh).

That doesn't answer his question. There's still a 2/3 chance he'll get it wrong.

Jay


shockabuku


Apr 11, 2012, 12:32 PM
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That's a mess.

You won't get hurt because of the anchor configuration, but it's like using an RV to drive to work - really not the right solution.

Use what the couple of pictures above show.


marc801


Apr 11, 2012, 12:52 PM
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Re: [shockabuku] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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shockabuku wrote:
That's a mess.

What I still fail to understand is why someone will post in the Beginners section an "Is this correct/safe/whatever?" question and then get all pissy when the answers aren't what they thought they would be.


CWMS


Apr 13, 2012, 12:08 PM
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Overkill?? Anyone who says this is overkill please tell me what knot is used to tie the strands together, hidden behind the posts. Based on your assessments of "overkill" you must know that the knot is strong enough for the anticipated load. Maybe my eyes just are not up to the task, but I cannot determine what knots are used, so I say the anchor integrity is highly suspect, the opposite of overkill.

I would agree with everything else here though - there is no need to learn rope skills through trial-and-error in this day and age. Check out some books, courses, climbing club mentors, guides..... otherwise someone on your rope team will get hurt


redlude97


Apr 13, 2012, 12:39 PM
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looks like a rethreaded figure 8. not necessarily the knot I would choose but not dangerous


CWMS


Apr 13, 2012, 1:45 PM
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redlude97 wrote:
looks like a rethreaded figure 8. not necessarily the knot I would choose but not dangerous

Agreed, no issues with the strength of the knot. My point is that there are 3 separate tied components, and the 3 separate knots are suspect as they are not all visible (to me) Assessing an anchor as "overkill" without being able to see/assess all components is as dangerous as building the anchor in the first place.


bill413


Apr 16, 2012, 5:49 AM
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Re: [CWMS] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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CWMS - the knots hidden behind the post (assuming that there is only one which was used to join the whole cordellette into a loop) is actually not particularly relevant for the two outside legs. That is because those attachments around the posts are made with multiple strands, isolated from each other by the upper visible overhand knots.


CWMS


Apr 16, 2012, 7:17 AM
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bill413 wrote:
... assumingthat there is only one ...

Thanks bill143, you make my point.

Which is, never make assumptions when assessing any climbing anchor component.


cruxslayer


Apr 17, 2012, 8:43 PM
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i see your point about the knot. a self equalizing double figure of eight knot is pretty easy to tie and in my opinion would be the best option. by having 2 static legs one 2 anchors inevitably one will end up holding more of the load than the other(s). the self equalizer will put equal force on each anchor. just remember your critical rigging angle of 120 degrees.....so make the legs of your system long enough to accommodate this.


here's the knot
http://climbing.about.com/od/climbingknots/a/EqualFigure8Kno.htm


moose_droppings


Apr 17, 2012, 9:29 PM
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cruxslayer wrote:
i see your point about the knot. a self equalizing double figure of eight knot is pretty easy to tie and in my opinion would be the best option. by having 2 static legs one 2 anchors inevitably one will end up holding more of the load than the other(s). the self equalizer will put equal force on each anchor. just remember your critical rigging angle of 120 degrees.....so make the legs of your system long enough to accommodate this.


here's the knot
http://climbing.about.com/od/climbingknots/a/EqualFigure8Kno.htm

Maybe were talking about the same thing and I'm just not seeing the way you said it, but, the knot isn't "self equalizing". You have to adjust the legs to the length you want them at. Once set and pulled hard, the knot cinches down on itself and the legs remain at the length you set them at, even if one gives out. The appeal of the knot is it's an easy knot to tie and adjust different leg lengths while just using the rope for anchoring sans cordellette.


majid_sabet


Apr 17, 2012, 11:06 PM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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Rockalanche wrote:
Hello, Assuming the deck posts that the ropes are around are actually anchor with locking carabiners in them. Is this a safe and correct setup for a top anchor?

Thanks
Libby

The concept of building a good anchor is to keep it simple, use fewer knot ( static) and easy to inspect with minimal use of gear and yet, safe to handle min 20kn of force in worse case situation.


majid_sabet


Apr 17, 2012, 11:10 PM
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squierbypetzl wrote:
Everybody bring it down a notch. Blue forum, remember?

The anchor setup in Jmichaels image is more than enough to keep you safe on most bolted sport climbs. Your own setup was a bit too redundant, unnecessarily so, and could lead to a mistake which would lead to an accident.

[image]http://tawkroc.org/files/2010/06/top-rope-config-draws.jpg[/image]

Most people use 2 opposed non-locking biners for the power point. If you feel better using lockers all around, feel free.

edit: upon further review, it seems I'm taking some things for granted. What knots are you using on the cordelettes?

if you are going to use draws, both master biner and top biners must be the exact same kind otherwise, forces on one side is greater due to mismatch biner length. not a biggy in TR but, it can be a problem on lead anchor.


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Apr 17, 2012, 11:11 PM)


dindolino32


Apr 18, 2012, 9:45 PM
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Re: [Rockalanche] Correct Anchor? [In reply to]
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welcome to RC.com! People dont intend to help you, they just wreck whatever you say. My only concern would be to keep the v-angle less than 60 degrees.

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