Fair and square win.

what are you going to spend your 40$ on?

Cheers,

But it was interesting that I was able to inadvertently open two O&O oval solid gate biners.

And irrelevant.

Very well explained & illustrated.

Dude, nobody is forcing you to post here. Feel free to piss on somebody elses's picnic.

Not when threads like this one convey to less experienced people the wrong impression, which in this case is that there is any disadvantage to using a couple of non-locking biners or draws as a TR anchor.

Having the rope can come free from the anchor is a pretty significant disadvantage in any system, and if cracklover proved it can happen then his claims warrant some looking into.

Personally, I've always used and will very likely continue using 2 opposed non-locking (non wire gate) biners on an equalized cordelette for any toprope anchors I have to set up. Knowing that it's not only possible but plausible for the rope to come free in certain scenarios can only make me safer and therefore a better climber and instructor.

You'd think that climbing would get smarter over the decades, but instead it seems to be getting dumber the better the gear gets. The perceived prioritization around safety seems to be getting completely ass-backwards as time goes on instead. Look, there is just no circumstance where rope is going to come out of two opposed non-locking biners without doing something stupid and ill-advised in the setup. The whole thread is a 'the sky is falling sort of deal' and a real disservice to those who don't know any better.

"healyjeYou'd think that climbing would get smarter over the decades, but instead it seems to be getting dumber...

Nicely done GO. It was a fun and mostly academic question which was asked and satisfactorily answered.

The post-submittal banter as to the probability and relevancy to the climbing community misses the obvious deficiency with how the anchor is set up: The biners are over an edge! Although this setup is within the parameters of the game, it is a good illustration of one reason why the biners should be hanging straight and free. Avoiding lateral loading on the biners is the prime reason.

I'll continue sitting on the fence as to whether the failure mode you have identified should have been posted. This is not the "Beginner" forum after all. At the same time, I can't say the thread as it is (hind sight) belongs in "The Lab" either. Maybe in Campground?

Bill L

We'll have to agree to disagree - setting up situations that are inherently dangerous and then point out they are inherently dangerous isn't really doing anyone any favor when the thread title is what it is.

Huh? Sorry, but this is exactly what The Lab is for, as I understand it. Mostly academic discussion and documentation of climbing and gear related subjects, for the purposes of entertainment and enlightenment. If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, but like I said, nobody's making you read it.

GO

Fair and square win.

what are you going to spend your 40$ on?

Cheers,

Looks like it's a moot point.

It would appear that dead_horse_flats (the OP) has fled. His last logon was two days after I posted my proof, and he has had no posts here since Apr 2, 2012.

Bummer. But, I suppose, not terribly surprising.

GO

Looks like it's a moot point.

It would appear that dead_horse_flats (the OP) has fled. His last logon was two days after I posted my proof, and he has had no posts here since Apr 2, 2012.

Bummer. But, I suppose, not terribly surprising.

GO

This is a $40 offer to anyone who can demonstrate a scenario of the failure of a top rope anchor using two non-locking opposed biners at the power point.

Disclaimers.
1. Opposed means opposed.
2. No manually holding the biners to force the rope thru them.
3. No wrapping the rope around the biners unless you can create a situation where this could happen un-intentionally.
4. Failure means the rope escaped from BOTH biners. Both means both.
5. No theories, microfractures, CE marks, or alien abductions.

Prove it and I will mail you $40.