Forums: Climbing Information: Regional Discussions:
The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!!
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Regional Discussions

Premier Sponsor:

 


RelentlessRic


Apr 10, 2012, 8:05 AM
Post #1 of 15 (3939 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2012
Posts: 2

The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!!  (North_America: United_States: New_York: Upstate)
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Just starting a post to see who has checked out the new gym in Halfmoon/Clifton Park and make a thread for everyone to do a shout out and introduce themselves!

So lets hear it Ladies and Gents!

What's up??


toofreakinsexy1


Jun 15, 2012, 10:35 PM
Post #2 of 15 (3776 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 53

Re: [RelentlessRic] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

Excellent facility, but I haven't been impressed with the staff/owner. I thought I was gonna be blown away when I walked in and saw the place but I find myself still driving the 45 minutes up to the gym in Glens Falls instead of the 10 minutes to The Edge. First impression was a negative, I'm a military member and there's no discount. Fine, but there's a discount for college students. Not fine. Give the discounts to kids that are living the college life of partying and (maybe) going to class but not to the people in the line of fire for this country? Come on.
The routesetting is weak. Good moves if you're 5'11", but any shorter and those 5.10's become 5.12's, so being 5'10" I'm usually alright but the shorter folks I climb with are usually pretty peeved by the time we're done. We're all impressed with your ape index, but it's a gym. Set routes with some technique required, not just long reaches.
The main reason I avoid the gym is the abhorrently wrong information I've been told during a few lead certifications. I don't know who the main dude responsible for the education of his staff is, but he's an idiot. Here's the biggest offenders:
-you have to tighten the climber's knot as tight as possible before leaving the ground so the knot doesn't "untie itself while you climb" completely negating the force-reducing benefits of the knot tightening during a lead fall. When I brought up why a well-dressed but not fully tightened knot was beneficial I was told "you don't ever plan on falling, sometimes it just happens though" Mmhm
-Yosemite safety followthrough knot is unsafe because it causes the knot to "flip inside out, possibly breaking the rope" Those last 6000 falls I've taken on that followthrough must've just been luck. Stupid.
-After a full lead-cert for 4 people the kid doing the test let us know "I'm pretty sure that's it, I don't really know for sure, I'm a boulderer"
-A female staff member was giving a lead cert next to me and told the person she was certifying "I don't like being picked up during a lead fall so I usually anchor myself to the floor" This same girl told me she's been climbing for 9 years.
A few weeks ago a climber on lead fell from the top of the wall while clipping the last bolt (about 40 feet up) and hit the deck, fracturing several vertebrae in his neck. 100% belayer error from what the staff told me. Surprise, surprise. New leaders beware.


shockabuku


Jun 16, 2012, 7:28 AM
Post #3 of 15 (3739 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4862

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

toofreakinsexy1 wrote:
Excellent facility, but I haven't been impressed with the staff/owner. I thought I was gonna be blown away when I walked in and saw the place but I find myself still driving the 45 minutes up to the gym in Glens Falls instead of the 10 minutes to The Edge. First impression was a negative, I'm a military member and there's no discount. Fine, but there's a discount for college students. Not fine. Give the discounts to kids that are living the college life of partying and (maybe) going to class but not to the people in the line of fire for this country? Come on.
The routesetting is weak. Good moves if you're 5'11", but any shorter and those 5.10's become 5.12's, so being 5'10" I'm usually alright but the shorter folks I climb with are usually pretty peeved by the time we're done. We're all impressed with your ape index, but it's a gym. Set routes with some technique required, not just long reaches.
The main reason I avoid the gym is the abhorrently wrong information I've been told during a few lead certifications. I don't know who the main dude responsible for the education of his staff is, but he's an idiot. Here's the biggest offenders:
-you have to tighten the climber's knot as tight as possible before leaving the ground so the knot doesn't "untie itself while you climb" completely negating the force-reducing benefits of the knot tightening during a lead fall. When I brought up why a well-dressed but not fully tightened knot was beneficial I was told "you don't ever plan on falling, sometimes it just happens though" Mmhm
-Yosemite safety followthrough knot is unsafe because it causes the knot to "flip inside out, possibly breaking the rope" Those last 6000 falls I've taken on that followthrough must've just been luck. Stupid.
-After a full lead-cert for 4 people the kid doing the test let us know "I'm pretty sure that's it, I don't really know for sure, I'm a boulderer"

-A female staff member was giving a lead cert next to me and told the person she was certifying "I don't like being picked up during a lead fall so I usually anchor myself to the floor" This same girl told me she's been climbing for 9 years.

I see nothing wrong with that last statement. I climb with two of my daughters, both who are substantially lighter than I, and neither of them appreciate catching my lead falls. The smaller one anchors herself.

In reply to:
A few weeks ago a climber on lead fell from the top of the wall while clipping the last bolt (about 40 feet up) and hit the deck, fracturing several vertebrae in his neck. 100% belayer error from what the staff told me. Surprise, surprise. New leaders beware.

Was that during the youth SCS Regional comp? I heard there was a fall just like that and that the belayer immediately detached from the rope and ran out of the building not to be seen again. I also heard the kid was okay but I suppose still able to walk is okay to most climbers regardless of the actual damage.


DFBUclimber


Jun 26, 2012, 1:03 PM
Post #4 of 15 (3600 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 26, 2012
Posts: 1

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Pretty in depth criticism! I don't plan on climbing there! Just a quick comment on the discounts. I'm not in the military and am unaccustomed with typical military wages and military discounts at places like climbing gyms or anywhere else, but the reason that people discount college students is because typically they do not have much money (either already in debt from student loans or about to be because all their money went to tuition!), and therefore, could really use the discount! Obviously this isn't the case for all college students, but the discount isn't so much based on the client's value to society and the risks they take as it is based on consideration for the intended clients financial situation.


toofreakinsexy1


Jul 16, 2012, 7:42 PM
Post #5 of 15 (3485 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 53

Re: [shockabuku] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

In reply to:
-A female staff member was giving a lead cert next to me and told the person she was certifying "I don't like being picked up during a lead fall so I usually anchor myself to the floor" This same girl told me she's been climbing for 9 years.

I see nothing wrong with that last statement. I climb with two of my daughters, both who are substantially lighter than I, and neither of them appreciate catching my lead falls. The smaller one anchors herself.

Whoa, didn't see anyone had replied, sorry for the delay guys.

Anchoring is fine IF it's done intelligently. My girlfriend is my climbing partner and she's 70 pounds lighter than me. She still doesn't anchor, but if she didn't want to go too far up the wall she could anchor with a 'leash' to LIMIT how far she traveled upward. What I was shown at the gym was an already tight, static tope-rope style anchor to the floor.... which I shouldn't have to explain would remove the peak-force dampening effects of the belay coming off the ground and place that higher force on your last piece you placed. No thanks.

In reply to:
Was that during the youth SCS Regional comp? I heard there was a fall just like that and that the belayer immediately detached from the rope and ran out of the building not to be seen again. I also heard the kid was okay but I suppose still able to walk is okay to most climbers regardless of the actual damage.

That SOUNDS like being dropped by a belayer is something that like.... happens during normal climbing trips? I've done some scary, long, hard climbing and I've NEVER factored my belayer as a point of failure, and they shouldn't be. The fact that that happened in a gym is ridiculous, someone there WATCHED that belayer and certified them good to go... An employee... told them they were good to belay. That's scary. There's nobody certifying people to go outside and do the same thing and it's a rarity to hear belayer's dropping people in accident reports.

I'm just pointing out that I noticed iffy techniques coming from all the employees there, and although I feel for the climber that fell, I can't count how many times I said "someone's going to die or come close to it" after every interaction with the staff there.


toofreakinsexy1


Jul 16, 2012, 7:53 PM
Post #6 of 15 (3480 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 15, 2007
Posts: 53

Re: [DFBUclimber] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

  I understand that college kids are poor, and that's the general reason why that discount is given, but the only difference between me and a college student is that instead of digging myself into a gigantic financial pit with student loans, I decided to serve my country and go that route for college money. If you're going to give somebody a discount for taking out ridiculous loans to party, skip class, sleep in, and enjoy the "college life" instead of spending 4 years doing something to show appreciation for the freedom they're exercising, the discount for the people spending those 4/6/8 years protecting that freedom better be there too.
And let's face it, if you've got 10 bucks to climb, you've probably got 12 to climb anyways.


Kartessa


Jul 16, 2012, 9:02 PM
Post #7 of 15 (3474 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7358

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (3 ratings)  
Can't Post

toofreakinsexy1 wrote:
I understand that college kids are poor, and that's the general reason why that discount is given, but the only difference between me and a college student is that instead of digging myself into a gigantic financial pit with student loans, I decided to serve my country and go that route for college money. If you're going to give somebody a discount for taking out ridiculous loans to party, skip class, sleep in, and enjoy the "college life" instead of spending 4 years doing something to show appreciation for the freedom they're exercising, the discount for the people spending those 4/6/8 years protecting that freedom better be there too.
And let's face it, if you've got 10 bucks to climb, you've probably got 12 to climb anyways.

Dude, you're doing it wrong.

I partied WAY harder in the army than I ever did in college. The only booze I could afford in school was the juices from the apples that I forgot in the fridge that had fermented for 4 months. Only had the apples because my roommate's family lived on an orchard.

Don't give this "holier than thou" shit about being a grunt. You chose this life. Most students actually study, especially when they're paying thousands per year for tuition , so quit watching your Hollywood trash and get a clue.


Kartessa


Jul 16, 2012, 9:07 PM
Post #8 of 15 (3472 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 17, 2008
Posts: 7358

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Afghanistan 2003:













shockabuku


Jul 19, 2012, 8:44 PM
Post #9 of 15 (3420 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4862

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

toofreakinsexy1 wrote:
In reply to:
-A female staff member was giving a lead cert next to me and told the person she was certifying "I don't like being picked up during a lead fall so I usually anchor myself to the floor" This same girl told me she's been climbing for 9 years.

I see nothing wrong with that last statement. I climb with two of my daughters, both who are substantially lighter than I, and neither of them appreciate catching my lead falls. The smaller one anchors herself.

Whoa, didn't see anyone had replied, sorry for the delay guys.

Anchoring is fine IF it's done intelligently. My girlfriend is my climbing partner and she's 70 pounds lighter than me. She still doesn't anchor, but if she didn't want to go too far up the wall she could anchor with a 'leash' to LIMIT how far she traveled upward. What I was shown at the gym was an already tight, static tope-rope style anchor to the floor.... which I shouldn't have to explain would remove the peak-force dampening effects of the belay coming off the ground and place that higher force on your last piece you placed. No thanks.

Yeah, that's not a problem in a gym.
In reply to:

In reply to:
Was that during the youth SCS Regional comp? I heard there was a fall just like that and that the belayer immediately detached from the rope and ran out of the building not to be seen again. I also heard the kid was okay but I suppose still able to walk is okay to most climbers regardless of the actual damage.

That SOUNDS like being dropped by a belayer is something that like.... happens during normal climbing trips? I've done some scary, long, hard climbing and I've NEVER factored my belayer as a point of failure, and they shouldn't be. The fact that that happened in a gym is ridiculous, someone there WATCHED that belayer and certified them good to go... An employee... told them they were good to belay. That's scary. There's nobody certifying people to go outside and do the same thing and it's a rarity to hear belayer's dropping people in accident reports.

I would never consider being dropped to be okay. What I meant was that if the climber could get up and walk away from the climbing location without hobbling, most people would probably consider the climber's health to be okay.


guangzhou


Jul 20, 2012, 1:34 AM
Post #10 of 15 (3408 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [Kartessa] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Kartessa wrote:

Don't give this "holier than thou" shit about being a grunt. You chose this life. Most students actually study, especially when they're paying thousands per year for tuition , so quit watching your Hollywood trash and get a clue.

You beat me to the post, but I was thinking the exact same thing.

As a prior grunt, a veteran, someone who used his GI bill to pay for college, and now a climbing gym owner, I would be more likely to give college students discounts.

Actually, I give neither discounts here. It's not an issue for our location and or our clientele.

Even as a E2, I had more money in the Army than in college. I spent my time in the Army, then relocated and lived lived on Okinawa surrounded my Marines and Air Force, service members are pretty good about spending all they make.

If you already know how to climb and have a reliable climbing partner, why drive 45 minutes to save 10 bucks on a monthly membership. Pass their test, watch other members and decide who is safe and not safe for yourself, and enjoy the great facility. Who knows, maybe you can bring change to how things are done by showing the owners how concerned you are.

Would be interesting to hear or see the gym's side of the story after reading your observations. Some of what you wrote about climbing tells me you don't completely understand climbing either.


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Jul 20, 2012, 1:42 AM)


shockabuku


Jul 20, 2012, 3:41 PM
Post #11 of 15 (3368 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4862

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I always assumed college students get discounts not because they're poor, but because you want to get their future business when they have good jobs and aren't poor anymore. It's not like either the military or student discounts are terribly significant in the climbing industry - at least not that I've seen and I've looked at both in multiple locations. In the ski industry however...


guangzhou


Jul 20, 2012, 7:29 PM
Post #12 of 15 (3352 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 26, 2004
Posts: 3389

Re: [shockabuku] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

shockabuku wrote:
I always assumed college students get discounts not because they're poor, but because you want to get their future business when they have good jobs and aren't poor anymore. It's not like either the military or student discounts are terribly significant in the climbing industry - at least not that I've seen and I've looked at both in multiple locations. In the ski industry however...

More or less accurate from a business point of view. If I owned a climbing gym within a military community that also had a University, like Clarksville TN. (Fort Campbell and Austin Peay) I would factor in several things before given a discount to either group.

First, do I have another gym in the area? If I am the only one providing the service, I don't see a reason to give a discount.

To me, the military is a transient community, but I would have to look at the college student community to see if they are or not. If the students stay in the area after they graduate, than a discount is worth exploring, if they leave once they are finished with school, it's not a priority.

For the military, I would offer special Unit prices if they wanted to do a morning PT (Exercise) session. Would have to be during set times and schedule by reservation. That would generate me more money than offering a10% discount to service members.

I do think they are several Military communities in America that could host a very profitable climbing gym. I was consulting with one potiential client about such a location last year, he back out because of all the financial mess going on in America, but I believe now is a good time to make this happen.

I also have an idea for a series of gym related to service members, but a much bigger multi-prong project that would need some willing investor(S). (Big investments, huge returns) I did have two Chinese investor approach me about his a couple months back, but not sure I want to work with these two particular investors.


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Jul 20, 2012, 7:32 PM)


adamcatalano


Jul 21, 2012, 3:56 AM
Post #13 of 15 (3325 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2008
Posts: 1

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So sorry to hear that you had such a poor experience at our gym. I do remember your visit, as my staff member asked me about the loose knot thing. I can honestly say that after 15 years of guiding and the training courses that go with it, I had never heard of such a thing. Oh, and all of our ropes around the gym are finished Yosemite, so not quite sure about what was up with that discussion.
The belayer who was involved in the incident had great technique to that point. I actually watched the incident on video several times. It was a short rope situation and he was Trying to sort out the twist and give slack for the clip. Also, he did step out of the gym for a few minutes to catch his breath but never left the property, gave his accident statement and called several times for updates on the boy. And like yourself, was a military man.
In regards to the discount, it is more of a financial thing. College kids don't have jobs generally, but they do have lots of friends. From those I know in the military, they actually make decent money (much more than this gym manager) so I believe it to affordable for them.
And the routes are getting much better I believe. You were there for the first round if I recall correctly. We have heard much fewer complaints about "reachy" lately. My primary setters are 5'7" And 5'10" but have learned to set for 4'0" a few months ago.
Hope I've addressed some of your concerns and you'll give us another try.
Please don't hesitate to come to me directly with any future concerns
Adam


shockabuku


Jul 21, 2012, 3:36 PM
Post #14 of 15 (3294 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4862

Re: [guangzhou] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

guangzhou wrote:
shockabuku wrote:
I always assumed college students get discounts not because they're poor, but because you want to get their future business when they have good jobs and aren't poor anymore. It's not like either the military or student discounts are terribly significant in the climbing industry - at least not that I've seen and I've looked at both in multiple locations. In the ski industry however...

I do think they are several Military communities in America that could host a very profitable climbing gym. I was consulting with one potiential client about such a location last year, he back out because of all the financial mess going on in America, but I believe now is a good time to make this happen.

I think it would be a little risky to base a business on a military population. I remember way back when a bunch of businesses went under when a large portion of Ft. Drum deployed. I also doubt that there is enough interest from most of the military community (as the principal client) to support a typical climbing gym, though I realize you did say a multi-prong approach.


climbing246


Nov 10, 2012, 11:15 AM
Post #15 of 15 (2871 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2012
Posts: 1

Re: [toofreakinsexy1] The Edge in Halfmoon Rocks!! [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I have been guiding for many, many years, all over the country. I have to begin by stating that this facility is WONDERFUL! I received a lead belay certification from a young lady who worked there, and she was extremely thorough. My wife received a lesson from a male instructor later in the year and he was also very thorough. In all my years of climbing I have met one person who has insisted on a "loose knot", and his reasoning was less then skilled. I would not recommend this! The theory is that its less harsh on the rope, but if you don't take a fall, while you're climbing there is potential for your knot to walk itself out.
As far as anchoring while belaying, I believe there is no issue with this if done correctly. Have you seen her lead belay? How can you criticize on this? Consider the statement " we don't plan on falling...it just happens sometimes" Isn't that correct? I mean, I don't plan on falling in most cases, but it happens. I guess I'm confused as to where anyone could find the negativity in that.
I was volunteering at the competition where the teenager was dropped. The belayer was more then qualified and there were rumors that he was a coach. Accidents happen everyday; you can not account for all human errors, especially in such an extreme sport. While climbing with a friend
(who has been mentioned more then once in a couple of well read guide books), I almost decked while being lowered on a climb because the rope we had was not quite long enough for the climb we were on. We had been using a friend's rope and thought it was long enough. Human error, we learned from our mistakes.
Military, let me first say I honor you in everything you do for our country and our families. I don't think it would be too big of a deal to do a discount for military but I do understand where they're coming from. College kids tend to have less to spend on activities due to school and studying. I think its extremely bold of anyone to assume that all college students party hard. Is it possible account for every college student and how they spend their funds? I'm sure if you made a big enough stink though, they would give you your $2.00 back.
The staff has been more then gracious to us and all the many friends we have brought in. In fact we have made dear friends with some. When I was in recently a female staff member was mentioning how a few of them had been certified by the AMGA ( American Mountain Guide Association) in all aspects of indoor climbing, from lead to rescue. They all passed the exam. I think this is very impressive!
I hope the community is willing to check this place out. Get a second opinion, or make your own.


Forums : Climbing Information : Regional Discussions

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook