Is that the same knot that was posted up-thread by shockabuku?

Knot (un)tying advice from the guy that brought you this:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread

You'll forgive me if I take the advice with a grain of salt? But just in case, please post your method for super-easy figure 8 untying, I'd love to learn something new.

Not quite, it's a double bowline with a Czech finish.

What is the Czech finish?

I've never NOT been able to untie a figure eight. I can't really describe it through text, but it's super easy, even after a huge whipper.

I've even had to undo friend's knots for them, showing them how, now they too have no problem untying figure eights after big falls, and after being super pumped too.

It takes like 4 steps that takes less than 5 seconds to loosen the knot, then it's just a matter of untying.

I think, basically, there are two types of people who get all worked up in the bowline vs. 8 argument. People who are anal about checking other people's knots and people who aren't.
I really don't think a bowline along with the various finishes that exist out there is difficult to check at all. And, if you can't distinquish between an 8 and a bowline in a couple seconds, you don't have any buisness "checking" other people's safety gear anyway. And, I always check my own knot so I'm probably in the second group. But I don't know that I'm ever going to get worked up about it. And I do use the 8 to tie in sometimes. Perhaps there's a third group of people out there. People who just don't care so long as the knot is suitable.

Do you mean a double bowline? That's the standard when it comes to using the bowline when tying in.

The only variations I've seen in the knot is where people tie their backup knots.

Knot (un)tying advice from the guy that brought you this:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...6;page=unread#unread

You'll forgive me if I take the advice with a grain of salt? But just in case, please post your method for super-easy figure 8 untying, I'd love to learn something new.

I see, thanks. Although you did state it, it's hard to see that it's not a rethreaded bowline (bowline on a bight configuration) vs. an actual double bowline with a rethreaded finish.

A bowline on a bight and a rethreaded bowline have the same form but are tied differently.

There are quite a few variations of the bowline, (double, Eskimo, water, Dutch), and also a number of different finishes. With respect to climbing however, most discussions seem to center around the the rethreaded variation or a simple bowline with a Yosemite finish.

A bowline on a bight and a rethreaded bowline have the same form but are tied differently.

There are quite a few variations of the bowline, (double, Eskimo, water, Dutch), and also a number of different finishes. With respect to climbing however, most discussions seem to center around the the rethreaded variation or a simple bowline with a Yosemite finish.

I used to use a bowline in Europe but switched to the F8 because it was more common here in the US. For me, keeping things simple and standard is better, but that's me. But the one thing that has kept me from going back to the bowline is the sheer number of variations of the knot and the finishes. Seriously, I think there are at least four variations mentioned in this thread alone, and that seems to be the case with nearly all threads on the bowline. For consistency's sake, how are people supposed to keep track of them all?

I'm not advocating the F8 as the best knot; I know why the bowline is a good knot. I probably would use it if I had continued to practice it over the years and had partners who used it a lot in the US (the F8 is also the standard here in South America), but a F8 is really easy for the masses to learn, check, and it's safe (in fact, I've read somewhere (sorry, can't reference) that an eight not fully threaded could still hold when tightened).

never understood that ... i take a few whippers at the top of climbs when pulling plastic to get the falling out of the system .. never had major problems untying ... granted im not hardcore enough to take factor 1-2 falls like some people here

nor have i had issues untying even with my older ropes ...

but who knows ... im not an RC expert

as mentioned above, the sheer variations of bowlines in this thread alone, basically means youll likely need to self check ... i tell partners who use the bowline that ... check it yrself because theres no way im going to memorize everyones favorite personal variation ...

its most interesting that every time (and there are quite a few times) where there is an accident with a bowline, people just brush it away ...

I don't take factor-anything falls, I'm just fat.

And as far as bowlines and accidents, I would be very surprised if you could find a single accident that involved a re-threaded version.

Your rationale for going to back to the figure-8 don't make sense. You went back to the figure-8 because it is more common? So what? Simplicity? A bowline and a fig-8 are equally simple? Standardization? Why would standardization, in the sense of everybody including you tying in with the same knot, matter?

Furthermore, you don't go back to the figure-8 bowline because it has too many variations? So what, you only need to know one of them. For consistency's sake, how are people supposed to keep track of them all? First of all, people keeping track of variations has nothing to do with consistency. Secondly, there is no reason to "keep track" of them all. I don't know how to tie most of the variations mentioned here. The figure-8 is easier for the masses? I agree, but so what? Let the masses do what's best for them.

Our decisions should be based on rational criteria. There doesn't appear to be much rationality in yours.

Jay