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jt512
Apr 20, 2012, 4:59 AM
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BClear wrote: Lol, yeah your a real leet pro I forgot. Great usage of the comma there as well.
Hard to know what to make of the juxtaposition of those two sentences.
In reply to: Op identified a weakness and asked for help for training. Personally could care less if she uses the info but its there. As far as I can tell not a single person has posted another effective way of getting more pullups or armstrength. To say climb more and leave it at that is just ignorant without knowing more about the ops situation. Not everyone lives near a gym or crags. But hey she's a woman so I guess you figure you should do her thinking for her. Or wait maybe because your such a leet pro who sends with no armstrength.
*plonk* goes another moron.
(This post was edited by jt512 on Apr 20, 2012, 5:03 AM)
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 5:03 AM
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Yeah your a regular nugget of wisdom. Just like your fab website lol. Maybe you should just suggest the op is too chunky and should just diet to climb better.
Regardless I posted a possible selection the op may take to train. Actually come to think of it I've posted about three different training methods/sites this thread. All of which discuss and encorporate other exercises than the pullup. But hey pushups don't help climbing either. Or the military press. THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS CLIMBING IS CLIMBING RIGHT GUYS? Just like the only thing that helps boxing is boxing and footwork. Same with football. I mean who pulls up with their arms on an overhang.
If you don't like it super, fill her with your uber knowledge and make her a rock prodigy. But only after she spends at least a year climbing in a gym. And don't start leading right away its way too complicated lol. And the pros are all footwork.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 6:11 AM)
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ceebo
Apr 20, 2012, 10:55 AM
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BClear wrote: Yeah your a regular nugget of wisdom. Just like your fab website lol. Maybe you should just suggest the op is too chunky and should just diet to climb better. Regardless I posted a possible selection the op may take to train. Actually come to think of it I've posted about three different training methods/sites this thread. All of which discuss and encorporate other exercises than the pullup. But hey pushups don't help climbing either. Or the military press. THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS CLIMBING IS CLIMBING RIGHT GUYS? Just like the only thing that helps boxing is boxing and footwork. Same with football. I mean who pulls up with their arms on an overhang. If you don't like it super, fill her with your uber knowledge and make her a rock prodigy. But only after she spends at least a year climbing in a gym. And don't start leading right away its way too complicated lol. And the pros are all footwork.
You are completely the other extreme to the people shouting ''you only need technique''.
I have climbed for years now and also built upto 20lb extra weighted campusing. That's quite an advanced level (no spray intended) yet it has only alowed me to achieve around 25 pull ups off the bat none weighted. That's relivent becuase when you consider my level of technique will far out do a new climber.. their is simply no need what so ever for them to have anywhere near that level of physical condition. Why?.. becuase with that level of physical condition comes a level of climbing where fingers are going to get injured if not well trained.
A realistic goal is to achieve a physical fitness that reflects the current climbers climbing ability.
I aint a expert of any type.. but a person can IMO quite safely do a quick MOT of their physical ability and then improve on it out of climbing.
5 pull ups? not alot to us. But to somebody who can only do 2, thats 150% more. Thats a big deal don't you think?. However.. its a realistic improvement for their level.. to achieve slowly over a few month. Standard pull ups are shit, i menitioned somewhere that more of a ''pull in'' seems to reflect climbing situation mroe.
Lock off strength, another basic physical attribute. In a few angles, building upto 5 to 10 second lock offs in those positions is also a basic easy to target skill for their level that will help them.
Some basic core work outs.. also will help them.
such basic ''base levels'' as above along side alot of climbing miledge for technique and so is going to help alot.
Drilling into pull ups to get to a level closer to ''advanced'' standards with the lack of technique and finger resiliance to go with it is completely rediculess. Also, those pull ups were a by product of the likes of campusing, you don't learn motor skills and get contact strength from pull ups. You are at yet another loss in spending so much time to train upto so many pull ups. After a certain level it's jus going to deminish as a training tool.. just like constantly drilling technique does, etc.
And stop going on like the core is the best thing since sliced bread. Set your google search settings to global, perhaps you may be shocked to learn their are MANY better trained regiments for the purpose of ''war''. But hey, when the anual world army's pull up compition comes around, im sure you guys got it in the bag!.
(This post was edited by ceebo on Apr 20, 2012, 11:03 AM)
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 1:26 PM
Post #79 of 103
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I hardly believe setting a goal of 20 pullups is an extreme goal for someone to have. Weighted pullups are for people who can already achieve at least 20 and wish to gain more. Again those programs routinely bring individuals from 0 pullups to over 20 in months not years. And they also have a proven track record. If you don't want the ability to rip off at least 20 good for you. Standard pullups are just another tool that can be used to achieve a result. Theres tons of variations which target various parts of the body more than others. Typewriter pullups are some of my personal favs for example. So are pullup pushdowns. But a lot of them are available unless you can crank some reps of the standard variety.
Its the Corps not the core. Apparantly some people don't understand the Marine Corps requires pullups before you show for basic or are selected for OCS. It has nothing to do with claims the Corp is an elite warfighting machine (which it frankly is), rather its the only service branch requiring their performance before you are hired.
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 1:31 PM
Post #80 of 103
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BClear wrote: Yeah your a regular nugget of wisdom. Just like your fab website lol. Maybe you should just suggest the op is too chunky and should just diet to climb better. Regardless I posted a possible selection the op may take to train. Actually come to think of it I've posted about three different training methods/sites this thread. All of which discuss and encorporate other exercises than the pullup. But hey pushups don't help climbing either. Or the military press. THE ONLY THING THAT HELPS CLIMBING IS CLIMBING RIGHT GUYS? Just like the only thing that helps boxing is boxing and footwork. Same with football. I mean who pulls up with their arms on an overhang. If you don't like it super, fill her with your uber knowledge and make her a rock prodigy. But only after she spends at least a year climbing in a gym. And don't start leading right away its way too complicated lol. And the pros are all footwork.
I'd probably think you're less of an idiot if you hadn't cross posted your pull up regimen on redriverclimbing.com. If I recall correctly, it got the same treatment there.
I'll say this once more, and once more only. You're advocating an extreme position that will have very little to no payoff in real world climbing. I can at least supply anecdotal results at a very high standard for beginning women with the training plan that I advocate.
Finally, I will always believe in the necessity of upper body strength. Everyone in this thread with the possible exception of bearbreeder does. Targeted climbing will build power, skill, body awareness, and strength. If you think of the rock as your training tool, you'll see that you can train anything you want to with proper climb selection. You'll just learn all of that with the proper application skills at the same time.
You can do all the pull ups you want to do. You can advocate this regimen all over the net. But here and now, I'm calling this bullshit out. How long have you been climbing? What are your best sends?
This is relevant to the conversation, not just elitism. If you claim that copious upper body strength is this necessary for beginners, you need to back that up.
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 1:50 PM
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The program was never attacked actually. So piss off with that weaksauce. You want to compare dick sizes too? Mines bigger it's the pullups.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 1:51 PM)
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 1:53 PM
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BClear wrote: The program was never attacked actually. So piss off with that weaksauce. You want to compare dick sizes too? Mines bigger it's the pullups.
Go back to page 1. rgold specifically refuted the relevance of your methods.
The only relevance comes from results in climbing. How long have you been climbing? What are your best sends?
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sungam
Apr 20, 2012, 2:03 PM
Post #83 of 103
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You may be missing the point...
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 2:07 PM
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Actually my direct results are best displayed through my wife, as is the notion beginners don't need upper body strength. She couldn't even climb a thing initially. Literally nada. It sure as hell wasn't footwork that helped her.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 2:09 PM)
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:15 PM
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BClear wrote: Actually my direct results are best displayed through my wife, as is the notion beginners don't need upper body strength. She couldn't even climb a thing initially. Literally nada.
You're not keeping up here boss. How long has she been climbing? What are her accomplishments?
If you're really interested in defending your position, answer these questions.
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 2:18 PM
Post #86 of 103
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What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? I'm seriously baffled how stupid people can truly be.
As for her accomplishments how bout she can climb up easy walls instead of being unable to progress period.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 2:24 PM)
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:22 PM
Post #87 of 103
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BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness?
Because I am an advocate of application. I don't believe that you're building skill while you're cranking out pull ups. To me, that is a waste of training time. If I want to build upper body strength I go boulder on the steeps.
If you're unwilling to directly compare results in a public forum, it says to me that the results from the position I advocate are far superior. I wonder WHY I would be a fan of this position if that is the case...
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 2:26 PM
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Lol yeah your kung fu is the greatest. It literally reminds me of the martial arts idiots who argue their style is dah greatest.
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:27 PM
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sungam wrote: BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? [image]http://i.imgur.com/GxoM0.jpg[/image]
You need to spell check your memes. 
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 2:27 PM
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Relivent eh...lol.
Let me make this perfectly clear, pullups aren't the end all be all of anything other than pullups. Just like the bench press, or any other routine. It's called supplementation. Theres literally countless hangboard routines that encorporate pullups.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 2:32 PM)
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:31 PM
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BClear wrote: Lol yeah your kung fu is the greatest. It literally reminds me of the martial arts idiots who argue their style is dah greatest.
Thanks for the concession. It is clear to me (and I would imagine anyone reading this) that you're both unwilling and incapable of showing application here. I'll just go ahead and assume that everyone knows the true value of your program.
Style is a totally different conversation, far more relevant to elites than beginners. Needless to say, you'd be totally out to sea in that conversation.
We should meet up in the Red sometime. I'd be happy to show you the difference between strength and applied strength in climbing.
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 2:34 PM
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Lol I'd rather climb with a drunk monkey. You are pro though man no doubt. And your ubercool. You should train us all because you are a climbing god with the end all be all opinion on how to climb.
(This post was edited by BClear on Apr 20, 2012, 2:40 PM)
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sungam
Apr 20, 2012, 2:40 PM
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shotwell wrote: sungam wrote: BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? [image]http://i.imgur.com/GxoM0.jpg[/image] You need to spell check your memes.
Firstly, big man, I am flood several other threads with this stupid yet "relivent" picture spam.
Secondly, in equestria the spell things however the fuck they want, they're talking fucking ponies.
Finally, that's not a meme. Just because it is laid out in the advice animals format does not a meme make. A meme is actually a term, phrase, or representative picture that spreads in popularity and has a known and recognised meaning. For example a picture of the trollface has a clear meaning, you know something devious is going on (how the meme "troll" got turned around like that we may never know). And if someone says "fucking xxxxx how do THEY work?" it's clearly pointing out that the person they are responding to doesn't understand what thjey are talking about. For example "Fucking memes, how do THEY work?". Memes have a rich history, from "all your base are belong to us" to ridiculously photogenic guy, it would be a true shame to lose the meaning of the word.
And no, I won't proof read my response.
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:43 PM
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sungam wrote: shotwell wrote: sungam wrote: BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? [image]http://i.imgur.com/GxoM0.jpg[/image] You need to spell check your memes. \begin{uncalled for aggressive defence} Firstly, big man, I am flood several other threads with this stupid yet "relivent" picture spam. Secondly, in equestria the spell things however the fuck they want, they're talking fucking ponies. Finally, that's not a meme. Just because it is laid out in the advice animals format does not a meme make. A meme is actually a term, phrase, or representative picture that spreads in popularity and has a known and recognised meaning. For example a picture of the trollface has a clear meaning, you know something devious is going on (how the meme "troll" got turned around like that we may never know). And if someone says "fucking xxxxx how do THEY work?" it's clearly pointing out that the person they are responding to doesn't understand what thjey are talking about. For example "Fucking memes, how do THEY work?". Memes have a rich history, from "all your base are belong to us" to ridiculously photogenic guy, it would be a true shame to lose the meaning of the word. And no, I won't proof read my response.
I wish I could give this 1000 stars. You'll have to settle for five.
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shotwell
Apr 20, 2012, 2:54 PM
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BClear wrote: Lol I'd rather climb with a drunk monkey. You are pro though man no doubt. And your ubercool. You should train us all because you are a climbing god with the end all be all opinion on how to climb.
Well, I've already pointed out that my wife isn't a pro. I guess I'll have to make it clear that neither am I. Nor have I claimed to be.
Look, if you're going to get all butthurt over being wrong, don't advocate worthless positions. It is a pretty simple concept.
I'm also pretty sure that I pointed out that I respect rgold's opinion, even if I disagree with it. I don't consider myself the end all be all, I just think that the stance I advocate has the ability to quickly help beginners build climbing skill and applied strength.
I also am definitely NOT 'ubercool.' If you look through my posting history, you'll find that I'm about as well liked around here as jt512. I'm ok with that. The people I know in my life like me, and I don't really need general internet acceptance. I'll stand up against idiocy and ignorance when in the mood, and sometimes that makes me come off as a jackass. If I think you're wrong, you'll probably know it.
Obviously, your personal repugnance for me will keep you from even considering meeting with my wife and I in person. No worries on my part, we'll just keep getting better.
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blueeyedclimber
Apr 20, 2012, 2:59 PM
Post #97 of 103
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BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? I'm seriously baffled how stupid people can truly be.
It's called specificity of training. Look it up.
In reply to: As for her accomplishments how bout she can climb up easy walls instead of being unable to progress period.
I guarantee you that I could teach someone with the weakest arms i have ever seen to climb an "easy" wall by developing good technique.
Josh
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BClear
Apr 20, 2012, 3:01 PM
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Frankly I no longer give a damn.
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jt512
Apr 20, 2012, 3:26 PM
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sungam wrote: shotwell wrote: sungam wrote: BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? [image]http://i.imgur.com/GxoM0.jpg[/image] You need to spell check your memes. \begin{uncalled for aggressive defence} Firstly, big man, I am flood several other threads with this stupid yet "relivent" picture spam. Secondly, in equestria the spell things however the fuck they want, they're talking fucking ponies. Finally, that's not a meme. Just because it is laid out in the advice animals format does not a meme make. A meme is actually a term, phrase, or representative picture that spreads in popularity and has a known and recognised meaning. For example a picture of the trollface has a clear meaning, you know something devious is going on (how the meme "troll" got turned around like that we may never know). And if someone says "fucking xxxxx how do THEY work?" it's clearly pointing out that the person they are responding to doesn't understand what thjey are talking about. For example "Fucking memes, how do THEY work?". Memes have a rich history, from "all your base are belong to us" to ridiculously photogenic guy, it would be a true shame to lose the meaning of the word. And no, I won't proof read my response.
That's not going to compile without a matching \end{}.
Jay
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sungam
Apr 20, 2012, 3:29 PM
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jt512 wrote: sungam wrote: shotwell wrote: sungam wrote: BClear wrote: What position do you believe I have exactly? I'm not entirely sure what your opposed to really. You claim to be a proponent of upper body strength but attack pullups as a method of gaining it? Do you have any idea how idiotic that looks to anyone with any experience in physical fitness? [image]http://i.imgur.com/GxoM0.jpg[/image] You need to spell check your memes. \begin{uncalled for aggressive defence} Firstly, big man, I am flood several other threads with this stupid yet "relivent" picture spam. Secondly, in equestria the spell things however the fuck they want, they're talking fucking ponies. Finally, that's not a meme. Just because it is laid out in the advice animals format does not a meme make. A meme is actually a term, phrase, or representative picture that spreads in popularity and has a known and recognised meaning. For example a picture of the trollface has a clear meaning, you know something devious is going on (how the meme "troll" got turned around like that we may never know). And if someone says "fucking xxxxx how do THEY work?" it's clearly pointing out that the person they are responding to doesn't understand what thjey are talking about. For example "Fucking memes, how do THEY work?". Memes have a rich history, from "all your base are belong to us" to ridiculously photogenic guy, it would be a true shame to lose the meaning of the word. And no, I won't proof read my response. That's not going to compile without a matching \end{}. Jay
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