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bearbreeder
May 1, 2012, 5:38 PM
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long and gaines 2nd ed pg 23 ....
trust someone who is well known and respected in the industry for specializing in anchors ... or someone on the RC intrawebs ... yr call 
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edge
May 1, 2012, 5:39 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: It is not an overstatement or my own "personal opinion" it is a professional statement that myself and many other guides work from. Webbing has no place in a top-rope setup what so ever. You obviously have never had any formal training from PCGI or the AMGA. You are a good example of an "un-trained climber" if you disagree with my post. I'd rather not argue under this thread like you said, link me to where you would like to chat :)
Interesting.
Tell me, what is that connection on the two nearest legs of this anchor, as being taught?
Oh, I hope it is alright for me to borrow that from your guiding site.
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ncrockclimber
May 1, 2012, 5:44 PM
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johnwesely wrote: Honestly, I think you are just spamming your guiding outfit and attempting to use the recent the recent Gunks accident for some perceived financial gain. Pretty lame.
I agree 100%. Disgusting and despicable would be better a better description.
edit for typo.
(This post was edited by ncrockclimber on May 1, 2012, 5:45 PM)
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curt
May 1, 2012, 5:45 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Jt is doesn't mention webbing at all, that was my point. And Curt, your thoughts are invalid here because all you like to do is argue on forums so move along.
It's not so much that I like to argue, I merely have a low tolerance for incompetence.
NEGuiding wrote: My thought on this is use static rope for extending anchors in a top rope set up people. Take this from a professional. Is it really that hard to buy a piece of static cord and retire your webbing? Your life is on the line and others if you're top-roping on it. Do you really want to take that chance?
You have yet to factually establish that using webbing is a problem--except in your head.
NEGuiding wrote: Don't listen to older climbers about webbing just because they say "I've been doing this for 25 years or 30 years or whatever" Just because you've been doing something for a long time doesn't mean that you've been doing it right.
I actually agree with that. You can, for example, drive a car around for 25 years, without using a seatbelt and be fine--so long as you are never in an accident. In that case however, we have plenty of data demonstrating that using the seatbelt is factually safer. You, however, do not have any such data on the use of webbing vs static rope--as it relates to anchor safety.
NEGuiding wrote: If any of you are in the North Carolina, New York, Connecticut or New Jersey area, call me up and I'll put you on one of our top rope course for FREE. Mention this post and the class is yours free of charge and I guarantee you'll have your eyes opened to new fully trusted methods. My job as a guide is to educate the climbing community and that's what I do.
I would not climb with you and I would suggest that others steer clear as well. There are plenty of good, knowledgeable guides out there--you just don't happen to be one of them.
Curt
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 5:48 PM
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The 2 connections are runners, not webbing. If you don't know the difference between a runner and webbing than you probably shouldn't be posting in here. Borrow any pics you want, actually check out our facebook page and you'll see TONS of gear set ups. Also our youtube channel where we discuss boulder assessing, bolt assessing, structural geology for macro and micro structure.
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 5:52 PM
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chadnsc
May 1, 2012, 5:54 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Also in that photo, notice the angles. Very wide right? Another common myth that climbers avoid is going out of that angle increases loads. Yes it does but if each anchor can withstand the force/kilonewtons applied then do it. As for the picture from a book above somewhere haha I said before anyone can write a book and publish it. Very few guides and certified professionals write books. Most climbing books are written by seasoned un trained climbers and demonstrate WAY outdated methods. Hey Curt, I'm still ignoring you so move on.
You're a pretty good troll but you're starting to slip up. In you OP in the accident thread you stated that slings(aka runners) and webbing should not be used in a top rope anchor setup.
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 5:58 PM
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I said dyneema/spectra slings not nylon slings/runners.
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 6:01 PM
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Curt I know you think you're some "expert" because you've been climbing a long time. I wish you luck old man
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njrox
May 1, 2012, 6:08 PM
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[image]http://www.northeastmountainguiding.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/IMG_3278.332195047_large.JPG[/image]
This is going to sound crazy, but I know EXACTLY where this picture was taken. Upper Cliff, Watchung Reservation. I live 20 minutes away and I have climbed there a million times. On the "tier" where the climber is standing there's hardly any trees to anchor, they're all up above her and back.
That's got to be webbing. I can tell by the length shown in the picture. There's no way it's a sling unless its 10 feet long.
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majid_sabet
May 1, 2012, 6:10 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Curt I know you think you're some "expert" because you've been climbing a long time. I wish you luck old man
I'll rope up with curt over you in any days
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divnamite
May 1, 2012, 6:12 PM
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Is it the angle of the picture or the tails on that double/triple fisherman are really short?
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curt
May 1, 2012, 6:16 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Curt I know you think you're some "expert" because you've been climbing a long time. I wish you luck old man
Thanks, but aren't you supposed to be ignoring me?
Actually I'm not sure that I do consider myself an "expert" whatever that is supposed to mean. I am certainly willing to learn new things--and in fact, I still do on a regular basis. I am not, however, willing to let a relatively ignorant individual like you represent a wholly unsubstantiated statement as fact.
Curt
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bearbreeder
May 1, 2012, 6:17 PM
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arent runners basically sewn flat webbing .. hmmmmm
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 6:18 PM
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jt512
May 1, 2012, 6:18 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Curt I know you think you're some "expert" because you've been climbing a long time.
You think you're an expert because you took a class.
Jay
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majid_sabet
May 1, 2012, 6:20 PM
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jt512 wrote: NEGuiding wrote: Curt I know you think you're some "expert" because you've been climbing a long time. You think you're an expert because you took a class. Jay
he is certified so you watch out before he smack you in the head with his certifications
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 6:20 PM
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NEGuiding
May 1, 2012, 6:23 PM
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Oh this is just getting amusing now. I have plenty of certifications and have taken MANY classes from professionals and I also employee MANY professionals. My credibility speaks for itself.
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madscientist
May 1, 2012, 6:27 PM
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I don't think NEGuiding arguments are holding up to close inspection.
1) Just because the AMGA guide does not mention webbing does not mean that it should not be used. I see no place where it specifically states that it should not be used.
2) In this discussion, the difference between tubular and flat webbing needs to be addressed. Flat webbing is not suitable for top rope set ups since it is prone to being cut over an edge (otherwise I don't see a problem). Tubular webbing is not as prone to being cut, and I don't have any evidence that it is more prone to being cut than a static rope.
3) The "drying out" mentioned by NEGuiding is a poor way to describe what happens to webbing. I believe he is referring to the UV damage that occurs to webbing, and this does not destroy webbing in a matter of hours. Should not be an issue.
4) I have seen poor TR anchors set up by guides, so being a guide does not make me believe you any more or less.
Personally I would like more specifics on the recent accidents caused by using webbing. So far this is the only statements that has me wondering about using tubular webbing as a top rope anchor.
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johnwesely
May 1, 2012, 6:28 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Oh this is just getting amusing now. I have plenty of certifications and have taken MANY classes from professionals and I also employee MANY professionals. My credibility speaks for itself.
Then it might be best to shut your mouth? I think all you have managed to accomplish is to show how useless the credentials are.
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jt512
May 1, 2012, 6:28 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: Jt is doesn't mention webbing at all, that was my point.
The fact that the book doesn't mention webbing does not imply that webbing is unsafe.
NEGuiding wrote: Also in that photo, notice the angles. Very wide right? Another common myth that climbers avoid is going out of that angle increases loads. Yes it does but if each anchor can withstand the force/kilonewtons applied then do it.
On the other hand, the book does say, "Key Points. The anchor should . . . have no angles that exceed 90 degrees."
Hmm.
Jay
(This post was edited by jt512 on May 1, 2012, 6:31 PM)
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wonderwoman
May 1, 2012, 6:32 PM
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madscientist wrote: Personally I would like more specifics on the recent accidents caused by using webbing. So far this is the only statements that has me wondering about using tubular webbing as a top rope anchor.
Exactly. Inquiring minds want to know.
I don't want to watch egotistical fights over certifications or who has more experience. I want to know this. ^^
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chadnsc
May 1, 2012, 6:35 PM
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NEGuiding wrote: I said dyneema/spectra slings not nylon slings/runners.
Bullshit.
As you've now deleted your OP where you gave this advice I guess we can't call you out on that now.
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