Forums: Climbing Information: Accident and Incident Analysis:
Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Accident and Incident Analysis

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All


wonderwoman


May 1, 2012, 10:38 AM
Post #52 of 64 (8594 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275

Re: [majid_sabet] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What makes it even more tragic, is that this was the young woman's first time out climbing:

http://www.northjersey.com/....html?c=y&page=1

This is just truly sad.


Partner happiegrrrl


May 1, 2012, 10:51 AM
Post #53 of 64 (8561 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 4660

Re: [wonderwoman] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The more I think about this, the more sad it becomes. Words fall short, but I do hope this young woman's family and loved ones can find some consolation in their grief from the thoughts and prayers being sent for their loss.


Gmburns2000


May 1, 2012, 10:59 AM
Post #54 of 64 (8545 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15253

Re: [cracklover] Gunks Accident: Black Fly [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
Just because I know where the climb is, I am willing to bet that it was not led and that they walked to the top to set up the toprope. But the witness in this thread would know better. I've never seen anyone lead that climb.

I've led Easy Keyhole. Not particularly relevant - but it *is* totally leadable.

My condolences to all involved.

And yes, Curt, I've been thinking about that accident the whole time, too. IIRC, the best guess in that situation was that someone thought slings were girth hitched that were not - were just hung up on each other - but no-one ever knew for sure.

I hope they can figure out what went wrong in this case. Might help the people involved work through their feelings.

GO

Hasn't the witness already stated that another climber had lowered off the same anchor beforehand? I'm having a difficult time imagining how an anchor not properly girth-hitched or threaded could pull on the second climber and not the first. Seems incredibly unlikely to me.

Agreed that we may never know what happened.


boymeetsrock


May 1, 2012, 1:49 PM
Post #59 of 64 (8308 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 11, 2005
Posts: 1709

Re: [wonderwoman] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thoughts and good energy going out to all after this horrible tragedy. Stay safe.


(This post was edited by boymeetsrock on May 1, 2012, 2:14 PM)


stashyboy


May 1, 2012, 3:35 PM
Post #61 of 64 (8198 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 11, 2004
Posts: 33

Re: [wonderwoman] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Condolences to the family and friends-

I teach top rope anchor building in that very area occasionally and always use a two point static line tied off to two different solid trees with a doubled figure eight knot (BFK) at the master point. Girth hitching to one point is not acceptable. Girth hitching itself weakens the material with a sharp bend and possible rubbing since it's not a solid knot. Girth hitches also harm trees as they squeeze the trunk. Daisy chaining a bunch of slings together is unsafe as this accident illustrates and has no redundancy.
We also specify all our guests wear helmets. From twenty feet up, this might have had much less consequences.
Please invest the time to learn proper techniques and a bit of money for proper equipment to be safe, your life could be on the line.


patto


May 2, 2012, 3:51 AM
Post #62 of 64 (7972 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2005
Posts: 1453

Re: [cracklover] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

cracklover wrote:
Pronouncements like this really piss me off. You have no idea what happened to cause this accident, but you have no problem standing up on this poor girl's dead body as if it were a soap box to preach your own radical sermon about the dangers of webbing.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I have made not comment WHATSOEVER about the tragedy that occurred to this girl and its cause. As a consequence I bear no shame. I am offended by your remarks.

A girl died here and that is tragic. My condolences her family, friends and all involved at the scene.

I myself have lost somebody close climbing and I respect and sympathise with other in similar circumstances. I too though, respect the need and the importance of considering and discussing the cause of accidents.

As far as this one goes, I won't comment as I don't have sufficient information. Suffice to say though, a TR failure NORMALLY indicates a severe human error by somebody involved. Denial of this is denial of reality.


(This post was edited by patto on May 2, 2012, 3:52 AM)


bill413


May 2, 2012, 6:01 AM
Post #63 of 64 (7905 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674

Re: [patto] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (1 rating)  
Can't Post

Two theories:

One: The slings were girth hitched around the tree. The carabiners were clipped into the wrong loop of the girth hitch. A knot in the webbing, or friction with the tree was sufficient to hold the first climber; but shifted enough that it did not hold the second.

Two: The slings were girth hitched around the tree. The carabiners were clipped into the wrap around the tree instead of the end of the proper point. A knot in the webbing hanging up on the webbing, or friction with the tree was sufficient to hold the first climber; but shifted enough that it did not hold the second.


Partner cracklover


May 2, 2012, 8:14 AM
Post #64 of 64 (7808 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 14, 2002
Posts: 10161

Re: [patto] Gunks Accident: Black Fly Area [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

patto wrote:
cracklover wrote:
Pronouncements like this really piss me off. You have no idea what happened to cause this accident, but you have no problem standing up on this poor girl's dead body as if it were a soap box to preach your own radical sermon about the dangers of webbing.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I have made not comment WHATSOEVER about the tragedy that occurred to this girl and its cause.

Just to clear up the record, here is what you said, word-for-word:

In reply to:
Sure you can safely set up anchors with webbing. And 999 times out of 1000 it is problem free. However this was one time where it wasn't the case.

You are claiming quite directly that webbing was a contributing cause to this accident.

Unless someone hacked into your account, I don't see how you get out of it.

I'm sorry for your loss as well. Sadly, I think all of us who've been around have lost someone through climbing, myself as well.

Look, all of us want to have a better understanding of what really happened to cause this accident. However when you make claims about one type of rigging being inferior, and then state that it contributed to a fatality when there is no evidence to support your claim, you are doing exactly what I said - using a fatality to convert people to your own pet theory. To me, that seems entirely inappropriate.

GO

First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Accident and Incident Analysis

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook