Forums: Community: The Soap Box:
Polish death camps?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Soap Box

Premier Sponsor:

 


SylviaSmile


May 30, 2012, 5:43 AM
Post #1 of 23 (2176 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2011
Posts: 982

Polish death camps?
Report this Post
Can't Post

Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?


dr_feelgood


May 30, 2012, 8:16 AM
Post #2 of 23 (2161 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25627

Re: [SylviaSmile] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.


SylviaSmile


May 30, 2012, 8:20 AM
Post #3 of 23 (2156 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2011
Posts: 982

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Yeah, I tend to agree. It looks like the President should have apologized more immediately and more profusely for the error.


curt


May 30, 2012, 10:02 AM
Post #4 of 23 (2145 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt


veganclimber


May 30, 2012, 10:37 AM
Post #5 of 23 (2136 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 2775

Re: [curt] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.


dr_feelgood


May 30, 2012, 12:26 PM
Post #6 of 23 (2121 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25627

Re: [curt] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.


pinktricam


May 30, 2012, 12:46 PM
Post #7 of 23 (2118 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 7947

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

Have to go with curt on this. As I recall, many of the guards used were Poles. The Poles, the French and many of the other occupied European nations were overtly anti-semitic and had little issue with seeing their Jewish neighbors shipped off to death camps.

Of course, the Nazis weren't even the ones that invented the concept of concentration camps. I believe the English were, during the Boer War. The US also made good use of the concept with the internment of innocent Japanese American citizens, too. Not to mention the reservation policies implemented on Native Americans.


curt


May 30, 2012, 1:29 PM
Post #8 of 23 (2100 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a real stretch to add any sort of other meaning to Obama's words--except to indicate where the camp was located.

Edited to add:

I'm also fairly sure other pundits would have been critical of Obama if he would have used the term "German death camp," claiming that Obama didn't realize the camp was located in Poland. Sometimes you just can't win.

Curt


(This post was edited by curt on May 30, 2012, 1:34 PM)


pinktricam


May 30, 2012, 2:50 PM
Post #9 of 23 (2084 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 7947

Re: [veganclimber] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

veganclimber wrote:
Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.

Nah...you've focused on shit just as stupid because it came from a conservative.


veganclimber


May 30, 2012, 3:27 PM
Post #10 of 23 (2075 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 2775

Re: [pinktricam] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.

Nah...you've focused on shit just as stupid because it came from a conservative.

Any examples?


dr_feelgood


May 30, 2012, 5:17 PM
Post #11 of 23 (2058 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25627

Re: [curt] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a real stretch to add any sort of other meaning to Obama's words--except to indicate where the camp was located.

Edited to add:

I'm also fairly sure other pundits would have been critical of Obama if he would have used the term "German death camp," claiming that Obama didn't realize the camp was located in Poland. Sometimes you just can't win.

Curt

That is why the term Nazi death camp is so apropos. While Obama certainly did not intend to depict the Poles as harshly as the commentator is portraying, it is a major historical oversight to refer to the camps as "polish", and does a disservice to the memory and legacy of both the Polish resistance and the victims of the Nazis.


dr_feelgood


May 30, 2012, 5:18 PM
Post #12 of 23 (2058 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 6, 2004
Posts: 25627

Re: [pinktricam] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

pinktricam wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

Have to go with curt on this. As I recall, many of the guards used were Poles. The Poles, the French and many of the other occupied European nations were overtly anti-semitic and had little issue with seeing their Jewish neighbors shipped off to death camps.

Of course, the Nazis weren't even the ones that invented the concept of concentration camps. I believe the English were, during the Boer War. The US also made good use of the concept with the internment of innocent Japanese American citizens, too. Not to mention the reservation policies implemented on Native Americans.
It is arguable that the concentration camp was invented in the good old USofA during the Cherokee removal.


Toast_in_the_Machine


May 30, 2012, 8:26 PM
Post #13 of 23 (2047 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

Have to go with curt on this. As I recall, many of the guards used were Poles. The Poles, the French and many of the other occupied European nations were overtly anti-semitic and had little issue with seeing their Jewish neighbors shipped off to death camps.

Of course, the Nazis weren't even the ones that invented the concept of concentration camps. I believe the English were, during the Boer War. The US also made good use of the concept with the internment of innocent Japanese American citizens, too. Not to mention the reservation policies implemented on Native Americans.
It is arguable that the concentration camp was invented in the good old USofA during the Cherokee removal.
That was a death march not a death camp.


SylviaSmile


May 30, 2012, 9:11 PM
Post #14 of 23 (2041 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2011
Posts: 982

Re: [dr_feelgood] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a real stretch to add any sort of other meaning to Obama's words--except to indicate where the camp was located.

Edited to add:

I'm also fairly sure other pundits would have been critical of Obama if he would have used the term "German death camp," claiming that Obama didn't realize the camp was located in Poland. Sometimes you just can't win.

Curt

That is why the term Nazi death camp is so apropos. While Obama certainly did not intend to depict the Poles as harshly as the commentator is portraying, it is a major historical oversight to refer to the camps as "polish", and does a disservice to the memory and legacy of both the Polish resistance and the victims of the Nazis.

This is spot on. Furthermore, being careless about language is a huge part of what makes people from other countries think of us as stupid Americans--and they have a point! We can't be bothered to learn other languages or other cultures or care what might be offensive to a certain nation given its history. It's just embarrassing... Pirate


(This post was edited by SylviaSmile on May 30, 2012, 9:13 PM)


curt


May 30, 2012, 10:05 PM
Post #15 of 23 (2035 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [SylviaSmile] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

SylviaSmile wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
curt wrote:
dr_feelgood wrote:
SylviaSmile wrote:
Happened across this article on The Telegraph . . . do y'all think this is as offensive as it is being portrayed?

Yes.

What utter bullshit. Geographically at least (which I'm sure is what Obama meant) it was a Polish death camp. Sikorski and Tusk are fucking assholes.

Curt
A death camp in Poland, run by the nazis, who were busy attempting to exterminate their polish neighbors, both jewish and non-jewish. To say that is it "Polish" implies a modicum of ownership other than the ground on which it was built.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think it's a real stretch to add any sort of other meaning to Obama's words--except to indicate where the camp was located.

Edited to add:

I'm also fairly sure other pundits would have been critical of Obama if he would have used the term "German death camp," claiming that Obama didn't realize the camp was located in Poland. Sometimes you just can't win.

Curt

That is why the term Nazi death camp is so apropos. While Obama certainly did not intend to depict the Poles as harshly as the commentator is portraying, it is a major historical oversight to refer to the camps as "polish", and does a disservice to the memory and legacy of both the Polish resistance and the victims of the Nazis.

This is spot on. Furthermore, being careless about language is a huge part of what makes people from other countries think of us as stupid Americans--and they have a point! We can't be bothered to learn other languages or other cultures or care what might be offensive to a certain nation given its history. It's just embarrassing... Pirate

I'll grant you that "Nazi death camp" may have been the best wording available, but still believe this is a tempest in a teapot. Obama was presenting a Medal of Freedom to a Polish WWII hero at the time he referenced a Polish death camp. He clearly did not intend to anyway impugn Poland with respect to their participation in WWII. Those who think otherwise are purposely twisting things around for the sake of being overly politically correct.

Curt


(This post was edited by curt on May 30, 2012, 10:13 PM)


pinktricam


May 30, 2012, 11:42 PM
Post #16 of 23 (2015 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 7947

Re: [veganclimber] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

veganclimber wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.

Nah...you've focused on shit just as stupid because it came from a conservative.

Any examples?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...d;page=unread#unread

It was only a matter of time until you did it again.


carabiner96


May 31, 2012, 7:09 AM
Post #17 of 23 (1994 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 12509

Re: [pinktricam] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.

Nah...you've focused on shit just as stupid because it came from a conservative.

Any examples?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...d;page=unread#unread

It was only a matter of time until you did it again.
A three word phrase versus a four minute rant? Durp.


veganclimber


May 31, 2012, 12:14 PM
Post #18 of 23 (1962 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 17, 2005
Posts: 2775

Re: [pinktricam] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
pinktricam wrote:
veganclimber wrote:
Stupid controversy. This is only offensive to people who focus on words and not the meaning behind them.

Nah...you've focused on shit just as stupid because it came from a conservative.

Any examples?

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...d;page=unread#unread

It was only a matter of time until you did it again.

Yea. This graph shows presidential campaign spending for each election, going back to Lincoln. The results are adjusted for inflation. Noticing a trend there?



This doesn't include the upcoming election, but that will turn out to be much higher. Especially when you add in the super PAC's.

Look at this article and just think about it for a second:

http://www.boston.com/...8iZYNfPpN/story.html

In reply to:
A new projection of political spending by the Koch brothers puts their organizations’ anticipated expenditures at $400 million, doubling previous expectations and bringing the total for independent conservative groups to about $1 billion.

Four hundred million dollars. That's comparable to the entire amount spent on the Bush-Gore election, just coming from these two assholes. Apparently though, rich people don't have enough influence on politics. Here is part of an interview with Ken Griffin, a billionaire Romney supporter:

http://thinkprogress.org/...uence-over-politics/

In reply to:
Q. I’m going to come back to this. But I want to touch on two more areas first. What do you think in general about the influence of people with your means on the political process? You said shame on the politicians for listening to the CEOs. Do you think the ultrawealthy have an inordinate or inappropriate amount of influence on the political process?

A. I think they actually have an insufficient influence.

Now we have what some people actually consider a news organization actively supporting a candidate. The constant campaigning fueled by donations is turning our democracy into a joke.

So that's one issue. Then we have the "Obama uses a term that could be offensive, depending on how you interpret it, while honoring a Polish hero" controversy. The two are definitely comparable.
Attachments: Presidential-Campaign-Costs.png (96.7 KB)


SylviaSmile


May 31, 2012, 12:37 PM
Post #19 of 23 (1960 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 3, 2011
Posts: 982

Re: [veganclimber] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

I honestly don't think this topic has anything to do with American politics. It has everything to do with international politics and cultural sensitivity. Unless your slant is that the Republicans bribed the Polish people to be upset about a slip that no one knew the President was going to make?


blondgecko
Moderator

Jun 7, 2012, 8:47 PM
Post #20 of 23 (1836 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 2, 2004
Posts: 7666

Re: [SylviaSmile] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

This seems apropos:

In reply to:
An urgent plea to political reporters

Let's all stop pretending imaginary "gaffes" are real

Let’s all agree to just not pretend the president made an “oral sex joke” at his gay fundraiser last night, because that’s stupid. It’s stupid, and most of the people with jobs as political reporters are at least literate, and understand that this thing did not happen. So don’t repeat it, or even write that “some say” they thought it maybe happened. This would’ve been fodder for one 200-word Wonkette post back in 2006, maybe. “Funny pool report says crowd tittered at unintentional double entendre” is not actually the sort of thing that the INSIDERS and political junkies who read Politico should concern themselves with. (And let’s also agree to stop just adding question marks to headlines when the headline without a question mark is not supported by the content of the story, maybe?)


curt


Jun 7, 2012, 9:42 PM
Post #21 of 23 (1829 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 18226

Re: [SylviaSmile] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

SylviaSmile wrote:
I honestly don't think this topic has anything to do with American politics. It has everything to do with international politics and cultural sensitivity...

No. It only has to do with a couple of clueless Polish politicians not knowing that they probably shouldn't bitch and whine when our President was awarding one of their WWII heroes a medal.

Curt


Toast_in_the_Machine


Jun 10, 2012, 4:05 AM
Post #22 of 23 (1686 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 11, 2008
Posts: 5184

Re: [blondgecko] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

Or just go with cracked.com version
5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

In reply to:
#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"


Basically, It's ...
A politician accidentally misspoke in a way that made him or her look silly, and the opponents are pouncing on it.

If you're new to following politics, trust me when I say you will grow to absolutely hate the word "gaffe." Go to a news portal or a politics blog and search for the word "gaffe" and watch the server nearly burst into flames trying to serve results. ...

"Obama gaffe," "Romney gaffe," "Perry gaffe," "Biden gaffe" -- every party gets it equally. The word just means "embarrassing mistake," and I have literally never heard it used outside of the context of a meaningless, bullshit filler political news story. I'm not normally an angry man, but it's such an obnoxious word that if somebody at work used "gaffe" in a sentence I would fling my goddamned coffee into his face.

So for instance, during the health care reform debate, President Obama gave approximately 9 million speeches outlining how his plan supposedly would make the system more efficient. Then, in one speech, he stumbled, and instead of saying that the plan would rid the system of inefficiencies, he accidentally said it would bring inefficiencies. This slip of the tongue unleashed a torrent of headlines and blog posts and talk radio rants. On the other side, at a Mitt Romney campaign event, John McCain accidentally mixed up two words that implied Romney liked wasteful government earmarks. Boom! Gaffe!


pinktricam


Jun 10, 2012, 4:17 AM
Post #23 of 23 (1685 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 8, 2003
Posts: 7947

Re: [Toast_in_the_Machine] Polish death camps? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Can't Post

I gaff things frequently when I fish. But then, I'm a damn good angler.


Forums : Community : The Soap Box

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook